Olga Wunderlich in SL

Maxxo Klaar - artist

2008-03-20T19:05:00.000-07:00

Based in Regensburg/Germany, Maxxo Klaar is an artist who is trying to connect Real Life and Second Life at large. However, we are talking mainly about the Avatar Orchestra Metaverse (AOM), an international performance group in Second Life who performs live music in Second Life. He is one of the oldest members of this group. Maxxo is telling us, how AOM started and what is so special about them playing live in Second Life. As we are talking about the history of AOM, Maxxo also tells us some details about Pomodoro Bolzano, the artist collective in Regensburg with her base art.think.box in Second Life. This place also was, as he calls it, "the cradle of AOM". It is here, where we meet and start our conversation.

The above image is taken during the celebration party of "Art's Birthday" at Simpli.Privacy courtesy Reda Ribble.

– First day –
[11:07] Olga Wunderlich: Hey Maxxo
[11:10] Maxxo Klaar: How are you Olga?
[11:11] Olga: (smiles)
[11:17] Maxxo: This is the event platform. It serves sometimes for Avatar Orchestra Metaverse, for performances or for parties with live DJing. It’s from our group Pomodoro Bolzano - www.pbspace.de
[11:18] Olga: Okay, is Pomodoro Bolzano a person?
[11:18] Maxxo: No it’s the name of the group, media, art and networking + manoeuvre. It's basically Paco Mariani and me, the founding members - I think I told you, he is my partner since about 15 years. End of November, it’s almost a year, now that we arrived in SL. And we started with the art.think.box in December 2006.
[11:20] Olga: Okay, now I have the disadvantage that I know you from AOM and I know very little what you do with your Pomodoro Bolzano group.
[11:21] Maxxo: No problem, we don't need to talk about PB, just generally to get you located and it’s the cradle of AOM (Avatar Orchestra Metaverse).
Here on the space deck, it looked very different in March 2007. We did the first ever AOM performance, still as a small group, but we already screened it live in Amsterdam.
[11:22] Olga: Whose brainchild is it?
[11:24] Maxxo: It’s the brainchild of Miulew Takahe aka Björn Eriksson from Sweden and Vit Latynina aka Eliane van Feinstem, the virtual assistant, who used to work for Pomodoro Bolzano. And then the brainchild was nurtured by the members of Pomodoro Bolzano, Paco Mariani and Bingo Onomatopoiea, who already, back then, worked on the first instruments for the orchestra.
[11:33] Olga: (Olga struggles to get seated right) Do you have any other seat?
[11:34] Maxxo: We could fly up to the office or down to the factory, but sometimes its laggy there. Ok, I will send you a teleport from the factory. …
[11:36] Olga: Thank you! (Olga looks around.)
[11:37] Maxxo: So I mentioned Miulew, Vit, Paco, Bingo, but I didn’t mention Hars Hefferman, better known as the composer Harold Shellinx, whose composition Vickys Moskitos actually was the subject, which made us think about doing something like this inworld. www.harsmedia.com/VickysMosquitos/
The piece “Vickys Moskitos” is an open piece for computer voice (Vicky from Macintosh) reading a text of Harold Shellinx. And there is only 2 rules: Everybody may perform it - only the first sentence of the half hour Vicky voice needs to be in, at least, and Harold Shellinx needs to get a documentation. So Björn aka Miulew had done Vickys Moskitos #12 in Sweden in 2006. (http://miulew.podomatic.com/ …and scroll down for Vickys Moskitos # 13) That’s where it came from. And another detail to brew it up: We went to the first dorkbot** meeting happening in Odyssey in early march, which was organised by Maximilian Nakamura aka Shintaro Miyazaki from Basel. Miulew and Vit had a talk to Maximilian, and he liked the idea, and wanted to join the project. At one of the next meetings he already came up with the name - Avatar Orchestra Metaverse, so he tends to keep up the version of being the founder, but really he is the name giver. The name is analogue to another orchestra Shintaro is playing in, the Laptop Orchestra Berlin. Don't want to forget to mention that Maxi had some building skills, which helped Bingo immensly to get started.
[11:49] Olga: What does Metaverse mean?
[11:50] Maxxo: Metaverse is the name for Second Life, like universe. The name is taken from the novel SNOW CRASH by Neil Stephenson. And the Lindens where impressed by that book. Personally I didn’t get very far in that book, maybe I am a Gibsonian (**William Gibson), and that’s about it.
[11:51] Olga: (smiles) Okay, and do all of the early members have a background in music?
[11:52] Maxxo: Some of us have, the others, like me, have a background in concept art and mixed media. Miulew (I just use the SL names to keep it simple) is very much a musician and an internet net worker especially for music since the 90s. Bingo used to play in a punk band and Maximilian is into computer music.
[11:53] Olga: Pomodoro Bolzano did already exist before that?
[11:54] Maxxo: Pomodoro did, yes, but that’s a very long going project. The Vickys Moskitos and then late AOM all started in SL and nobody joined SL to be in the orchestra. Nowadays it pretty much changed, there are more members from all over the world.
[11:55] Olga: So, would it be right to say, all of the members also have a "private life" in SL?
[11:56] Maxxo: Private might be the wrong word, or at least I don’t know. Most I know about their activities is somehow in different kinds of art, music or just investigating SL aspects.
[11:56] Olga: How about you?
[11:58] Maxxo: I just slipped into some kind of more private life, calling that investigations and performance. Going round art exhibitions, being pretty forward to meet other avatars preferably feminine because I thought there might be more inter-"human" forces. Sometimes I doubt it, but at the end of the day, I have to draw a line and ask myself questions.
[12:00] Olga: Like what kind of questions?
[12:00] Maxxo: …about my behaviour, about the others, about playing and being serious and lots of that stuff. It's hard to not think about the identities behind the avis, but sometimes it’s just cool not to think about it.
[12:11] Olga: Hey, Max Xico isn't your real name either is it?
[12:11] Maxxo: I have no real name
[12:11] (Olga winks)
[12:12] Maxxo: …even the name in my passport isn’t my birth name.

--second day--
[11:34] Maxxo: For you I aimed (Maxxo winks.) So, any relaxed place you'd propose for a chilled conversation?
[11:36] Olga: Well how about the place in Odyssey, the fake market, I have some questions for that.
[11:36] Maxxo: Virtual Haidplatz? (*img no.7) Okay, I’ll send you a teleport. …
I forwarded our interview from yesterday night to Miulew. He was pretty touched. He couldn’t believe how fast our lifetime travels with those inworld projects.
[11:51] Olga: Well that, I can believe, I mean you are doing A LOT.
[11:52] Maxxo: Yes, its like a rodeo on light beams. Travelling fast: I wonder if that may have an effect on our real lives.
[11:52] Olga: So is this place made for AOM?
[11:52] Maxxo: No. Here we are back to Pomodoro Bolzano, I am afraid. Our first big mixed reality project: “Mobility.” The designer of the square was J0ri Tokyo after our vision of getting it caligarisized. J0ri Tokyo is brilliant and fast on anything digital, a genius. We didn’t work so much together recently. J0ri used to be a member of Pomodoro Bolzano since 2000.
[11:57] Olga: And what does it mean with Caligari, I don't get that one.
[11:58] Maxxo: There's this 20s silent movie where they coined that very special architectural look. The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, great movie.
[12:00] Olga: So it was your idea, and what was it build for?
[12:02] Maxxo: It was a RL event, we were invited for doing performance - all Real Life. It was called MOBILITY and the idea was, to put six containers on that square in the middle of Regensburg, and to get 3 Bavarian and 3 Bohemian artists to exhibit in them. So we thought, we add some mobility to that MOBILITY, and build it into Second Life. That was quite an encounter for the people coming from the RL exhibition finding the same scenario there but in SL on two projections mounted to the wall.
In one aspect it was a strange experience. The other artists working on the RL Containers weren't really interested in the virtual representation of their work. Some didn’t even come into the projection room to have a look at it. The virtual opening happened two days later. The Bavarian artists didn’t know about SL, in contrary some of the Czech artists did even have avatars, but having been already back to Czech Republic they never used the chance to show up in SL.
I think that’s a lesson about the gap between RL and SL on one side, and the even bigger gap between artists from different fields. Media art usually is time-based, and many people, especially fine artists aren’t really interested and don’t think much of it.
[12:08] Olga: Interesting, so it was basically already a mock-up.
[12:08] Maxxo: It was wonderful and the key to lots of more stuff into that direction
[12:09] Olga: And the Original is Regensburg?
[12:10] Maxxo: I am actually sitting about 100 metres from here - now in RL. It’s the Haidplatz, here known as Virtual Haidplatz, now.
Virtual Haidplatz proofed to be quite a success, and magnet for all kind of artists. The avatar orchestra took it for rehearsal ground. There were also guests and visitors, and just a lot of gathering and movement. It was a great spirit from the start, so Sugar (**Sugar Seville, the owner) offered us to stay here, if we stay active, which is our middle name, haha.
[12:15] Olga: You know, for me this place has a very special double meaning. I was just talking with Juria (**Juria Yoshikawa) about the fact that there is no real public space in SL. And she thinks one of the tasks for art is to build these places.
[12:16] Maxxo: Yes, Juria understands that wonderfully.
[12:17] Olga: For me it is kind of a strange mockery, because this is still an art place, so not a place where ordinary people go. And instead of playing in a real public place, or in an art house, you are playing in a made up mockery of an old market place..
[12:18] Maxxo: Is mockery good or bad?
[12:19] Olga: I think it contains irony, and it depends, where this irony is targeted. Maybe it depends on the reading.
[12:19] Maxxo: We like the place in RL, its very important for Regensburg and we basically did it this way on virtual cardboard to save prims for action and artefacts. And of course, that way we protected ourselves against the people criticizing that something would be wrong compared to the original. And we are artists and maybe its a bit of irony involved as the town of Regensburg is just now a world heritage place, and they wouldn’t even get the idea about presenting it in a virtual world - its another huge gap.
[12:21] Olga: I know only two other "public places" in SL so far, there is a New Berlin and there is Paris with the Eiffel Tower, but both try to be serious about the reconstruction (within the limits of SL).
[12:22] Maxxo: …and Amsterdam, you got me there the other night. And Frankfurt, Munich and Vienna, and there is hundreds more. But, you are right, this place is very special.
[12:23] Olga: This place here still looks amazingly realistic on a first look! Okay, and do you play on those other places also? Those "non-art" public places? Is that interesting for you?
[12:24] Maxxo: We started to do the Orchestral Investigations with AOM initiated by Gumnosophistai Nurmi. We did Amsterdam, which was great with lots of people coming along.
[12:26] Olga: How does it work in such kind of places? Do you ask for permission? Do you need to ask permission? Do you even need to pay? (Those are still privately owned.)
[12:27] Maxxo: No. We just did it.
[12:28] Olga: Wait, you went to Amsterdam and played there and advertised it, without asking the owner for permission?
[12:29] Maxxo: It’s a bit like Second Front does it - we go there before checking on laggyness and if we can rez our instruments. If its ok, we do it. We don't announce it, we just send teleports to our friends, and while testing and checking we told the passers-by about it. It was as if we came here and just did it.
[12:30] Olga: Interesting, and did you do that with other places as well?
[12:30] Maxxo: Actually, we wanted to do at least one investigation per month, but the Orchestra seems to have a bit of a burnout effect these days. Hard long rehearsals and a tough concert schedule. But I guess, us, the performing artists, will have a go soon, and the concept is not to have a fixed concept.
[12:35] Olga: Being at that point, I might as well just ask a few technical questions.
[12:36] Maxxo: I am not so good in technical terms, but feel welcome to ask.
[12:37] Olga: The "special thing" about AOM is that you play your "instruments" live inworld. But what do you actually do as a single player?
[12:38] Maxxo: In some compositions we have our HUDs and we just use them the way the composition offers us to do. So may I play my HUD (instrument) here for you?
[12:39] Olga: A HUD is a 2-D object on your screen, which is invisible for others.
[12:40] Maxxo: Yes, but it’s not really meant for solos or at least I never tried that.
[12:40] Olga: Well let’s try, it is interesting to hear it as a solo instrument.
[12:41] Maxxo: It’s like a keyboard with numbers or names on, often there are 2 of it, which makes it easier to switch between groups. And the conductor says things like “S2 + L2+4” or “some Figs and Saws”.
[12:42] Olga: Yes, I saw the instructions while you were playing.
[12:43] Maxxo: Here, this is from Rue Blanche - there are about 2 dozens of choices.
It's inworld sounds. But Rue Blanche for instance works very much with the Doppler effect, so if we move or fly, it starts to get the quality we like it to be.
[12:46] Olga: Do you have different HUDs for different concerts?
[12:47] Maxxo: Yes - each composition has a unique HUD and a unique kind of performative description.
[12:48] Olga: So what is the pumping ball you are wearing for, then?
[12:48] Maxxo: It’s the receiver.
[12:52] Olga: The sounds, are they pre-recorded sounds, small bits that loop? Or is there any other manipulation, or even generic sound produced?
[12:52] Maxxo: They are still samples, but in SLippery SLope, Wirxli introduced the hypercellos for the first time. But please do ask Wirxli or Miulew about them, or some of the members called Classicists.
[12:54] Olga: Ok
[12:54] Maxxo: I only know they are made by Robbie Dingo. And that you seem to need to know about some score reading while us, the Modernists, we act out more the performative side of the score.
[12:55] Olga: What I understand is that, as a member of the audience, I am getting different impressions depending on where I am and if the players move towards me or away from me.
[12:56] Maxxo: Yes, even just by moving the camera (your view) in and out changes all. For us it’s the same. We hear ourselves the loudest, if we haven’t changed to some orbit view.
[12:59] Olga: Do you play on rhythms, counts or some other signs of a "conductor?"
[13:00] Maxxo: Actually, rhythms not so much. An exception is WEE.NO.KRESH because that’s already very rhythmic, like the old Miles Davis' BITCHES BREW – I don’t know if you are old enough for that one, Olga. So we just go into dance mode with our avatar and then we let go: pling plong plong bambamabambam and so on - in brief, FUN!
[13:02] Olga gives Maxxo a big smile: Okay, I think I got a picture of how it works, really interesting!
What is it that keeps you going with it as an artist? You are not a musician as far as I understand?
[13:04] Maxxo: I never worked too much for myself, I always loved working together as it proofed to be a great possibility to learn more, have kicks and of course insights and such. Now working inworld, it’s even a step further. I can work with artists from far away, and I don’t need to work with my local people only, or travel a lot in order to join up with people whom I am interested in. Meeting artists we probably would have only heard from, and now we work together and do a tremendous exchange. I have to admit, in a way, we were very lucky by hitting the early Odyssey.
[13:07] Olga: Are you doing more art inworld these days, than in RL?
[13:08] Maxxo: No, we have so much to do in RL, but it’s often somehow connected. It’s a bit like in the middle ages when the nobles used to run “Wunderkammern,” wonder chambers, I actually don’t know if there is a particular English term for it. However, what we experience here now is so pioneer-like, and so far away for 99,9% of other people that they quite like to hear about it or even have a peep.
[13:13] Olga: So, most people you work with, they also know your real name? And collaborations go across RL and SL?
[13:13] Maxxo: Yes of course, all people know my real person, in SL, the AOM members, and who ever wants to know knows. There’s no enigma, as Maxxo is representing Max D. Well here. This is my main artist name since 1984. But I always worked with multiple names. Before that it was even worse because in the end none was known. That was good in regard of people not having prejudices. But bad, as there was no real continuity or body of work.
[13:16] Olga: I understand, you did play a lot with artist's pseudonyms, back then.
[13:16] Maxxo: Yes - I thought that would be good. As I say, no prejudice, no drawer opened yet, always a fresh horse - sigh, it didn’t work for me. Since 1984, I was living in London. From that point, I worked at least with that stable name of Max D. Well, and since 1992 under Pomodoro Bolzano as an umbrella and cooperative unit. This way it’s easier to fit in works under different names...
[13:20] Olga: But it was difficult for me to get a picture of what you are "actually" doing. And it was funny to find RL images of you but no name.
[13:26] Maxxo: For 3 years we used to research on Pomodoro Bolzano in the lab (**Trendlabor), Jori, Max and Chris (Paco in SL) . And we worked hard. We did work very fast and switched topics fast and there is no logbook, but it’s all out there and it’s a lot of nonsense. Haha- aaaahaah ;)
[13:28] Olga: Going back to SL, what is it that is most interesting, or intriguing to be here, and to work here?
[13:28] Maxxo: That’s really hard to say. There must be a lot of experiences and things I even haven’t dreamt of yet. All these creative people here, who are non-stop inventing what they always wanted to have or to do in SL, which is a representation of VR. At least for me, I have never been much into this kind of stuff, never been into science fiction or computer. I mean an easy example is you, meeting you. You are an interesting avatar that means there is an interesting navigator behind you.
[13:31] Olga: The commercial side doesn't bother you at all?
[13:32] Maxxo: I will join everybody on No Shopping Day as I actually do every second day of my life. And I got Google Mail, I am clean and being checked down to the syllable by the CIA and whoever you want to mention from the commercial side. I am commercial goof. All my mails to you and photos go via Google US and they will dearly be checked.
[13:36] Olga: (Now I know why you talk so carefully about politics) My opening question for that: You guys seem to be politically pretty unaware in relation to what you are doing in your work!?
[13:46] Maxxo: We don’t do politics. We are aware about a lot of stuff, but we don’t put all the energy in fighting it. We work for sustainability, it needs a while to make people open up and change their minds.
[13:48] Olga: I think all art is politics, and I do not mean the "activist" craziness in the US.
…but SL has some special issues, money and place politics are pretty precarious, also that you do not have any rights as user.
[13:50] Maxxo: We can go and demonstrate against nuclear power, against data sniffing of commercials and secret securities, proof solidarity with the Butan monks, but what is it you would think artists should do? Just using all the free stuff in the internet, what everybody loves, is paid for by somebody.
[13:51] Olga: As an artist you are very much dependent on being accepted, there is no first amendment or anything like that here. For people like Second Front it could be anytime that they are just banned forever.
[13:52] Maxxo: I agree, but then they will start somewhere else. They will come up with some new place where they can do their work.
For me that is not a big difference, the whole US seem like a family company. Only that it’s not such a small family, haha!
I lost an avatar with some fame and money. This was really baaaaaad.
[13:57] Olga: Is that why you are so YOUNG?
[14:03] Maxxo: Mine got closed in late mid April I think. No explanation, no sorry, no news about the whole dis- and enabling again. And I guess lots of people didn’t get their avis back.
There was a change of email and then not enough proof that it was me behind it, as I didn’t remember all the data I had filled in. …And you know, here I find things I probably can’t even think of in SL - for instance I don’t have a partner. So there are worlds in here, which I am just touching as a Peeping Tom, a voyeur, and an artist with all Henri Rousseau naivety.
[14:12] Olga: But: What scares me most is the concept of place. It’s this realization of an American dream, where everything is private property, no public commons, no public property. It’s like miniature LA including all the gated communities. And that is not what I envision as the virtual world I would dream of.
[14:14] Maxxo: Interesting, that’s why you asked about us playing Amsterdam without asking permission?
[14:14] Olga: Yep.
[14:15] Maxxo: It never appealed to me that there would be somebody chasing us off because it’s his or her property. So then in a way, it’s even more important that there are more and more artist-run-spaces like Odyssey, or here our art.think.box!
[14:21] Olga: I think it is important to do art things in non-art places, and to show people how important public space is.
[14:21] Maxxo: I agree 100%. I admire SF for what they do and agree on that importance.
And I love the idea that we'll go investigating with AOM.
…but if it comes to it, I am very much centred around all that many works and thinking how to use it as mixed reality tool. And I quite like to go dancing and chatting with beautiful avatars, and I think about the insufficiency, but...
Well, you said you will get tired after 2 hours, so I am really pleased, I could hold you for so long.
[14:43] Olga: Hehehe, how about finishing the evening with a dance? You've been challenging in some ways of being resistant to give me the answers I was looking for, hehehe. That kept me alive.
[14:45] Maxxo: Okay, what about an hour of distraction?
(They go off finishing the night with dancing in a club.)
The interview was held end of the year 2007, and only published by now.

Links:
Pomodoro Bolzano http://www.pbspace.de

Vickys Mosquitos http://www.harsmedia.com/VickysMosquitos/

Vickys Moskitos #12 http://miulew.podomatic.com/

Avatar Orchestra Metaverse http://avatarorchestra.blogspot.com/

Avatar Orchestra Metaverse http://www.avatarorchestra.org/

AOM on myspace http://www.myspace.com/avatarorchestra

AOM Riesenrad performance on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onklE0eqnfI&feature=related

AOM Fadheit on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl279WLmdYk

Odyssey http://odysseyart.ning.com/

**William Gibson, author of Neuromancer

Reopening of Fleur de Lys with Exhibition

2007-08-22T14:13:00.000-07:00

Please be welcome to the GRAND REOPENING OF FLEUR DE LYS. As our first show we present a solo exhibition of artist TRINDOLYN BECK.

Fleur De Lys - Buyeo
Friday, 24 August 2007

Click here for images of the opening reception.

SLURL: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Buyeo/90/199/21

The acclaimed singer and acoustic guitar player FABLE SINATRA will join us and perform during the opening. (Link: http://www.myspace.com/fablesinatra)

TRINDOLYN BECK's images are mesmerizing and depict "ordinary life" in 3-D. Made with a 3-D modelling program outside of SL, his scenes show how Second Life could be in near future, but also which stories and human dramas it may represent, or even maybe lived in SL. Presented with photographs, one still could call Trindolyn Beck a sculpturer, a modeller, a stage designer, and a photopgrapher. His images have been shown in RL and SL. In RL he lives in Nebraska and has been strongly evolved with the 3-D community for years.

Please also check out the interview with Trindolyn Beck at this blog.

We hope you are all able to come!

Olga Wunderlich and Anderson Philbin

Trindolyn Beck - artist

2007-08-14T16:29:00.000-07:00

Tridolyn Beck is an artist in Second Life who mainly works in a different 3D program: Poser. He then imports the images into Second Life, where he already had a number of exhibitions, the most recent in Galeria LX, where we meet, and in Gallery… For him, Second Life is an extension of what 3D artists have been doing for several years and thus he likes to live and to socialize in Second Life. The motifs of his images derive from stories, such as fairytales but also stories he remembers from childhood. With his 3D imaging program, he is able to achieve a much higher resolution and much more sophisticated poses than in SL, thus, his photographs seem to stay in between Second Life and Real Life, at least if we see them represented in Second Life. In the interview he talks about his work and the relations between SL, RL and his art, and the possible future of Second Life.

[13:48] Olga Wunderlich: We meet in a gallery space in SL, where you show your work. So I would like to ask you how long have you been in SL, and what is you reason to show your art here?
[13:49] Trindolyn Beck: I was born February 26th 2007..... and I guess, just like Real Life I need to show my work to help explain who I am
[13:50] Olga: well, I know, but what is mostly interesting to me, to tell it straight, in our talk, is how you are relating to SL. In certain ways, one could say you are not a SL artist?
[13:52] T.B.: Well, I am NOT in particular, an SL artist. I am an artist who exists on SL. I have been involved with the 3D community for many years and SL just seemed to be an acceptable extension of the work I create.
[13:53] Olga: In which ways is it an extension?
[13:55] T.B.: I do not create my main work in world, although I do some sculpturing and photography here. But I guess what I mean is Second Life was born from the type of art I and other 3D artists do. If it weren't for Poser and Bryce and programs such as these, SL would not exist. So since you and I are born from SL.... that makes it an extension. Also, living in this world gives me inspiration
[13:57] Olga: Interesting, so you have the feeling our existence is a mind child from the community you have been involved in?
[13:57] T.B.: oh definitely..... Avatars are born from 3D modeling. They are just animated.
[13:58] Olga: What is more important for you, the modeling or the picture making, saying: are you a builder or a photographer?
[14:00] T.B.: I am much more involved in the modeling aspect as would be a painter. Photography is the recording of God's work where what I do is more playing the God.
[14:00] Olga: and do you feel, what is happening at the moment in SL is somehow your images coming alive?
[14:02] T.B.: it's funny like that.. but yes... I love watching 3D coming to life and coming together of all the interesting artists involved in this massive piece of art.... That will someday become a "norm" in communication

[14:03] Olga: I actually did have the feeling, that you are ahead of SL, and related, the mannequins seem much more hyper realistic, and the themes you are having are dreams and fairytales come true.
[14:05] T.B.: Well, you are right, what I do IS more advanced in many ways but then you have to remember that the programs I use have been around for many years where SL is only just beginning. I have no doubt that it will catch up and even overtake the simple modeler
[14:07] Olga: There is something eerie in your images, more eerie, or uncanny than images you may in SL, and I wonder, will be SL like that? To explain that a bit: A friend of mine talked about the "Uncanny Valley", when we were in the show and talking about your images. Is that a term you are familiar with?
[14:10] T.B.: no... but I think what you are referring to is the detail that gives my drawings more "life" than SL can produce. An example: you are a lovely woman, very lovely, but your shoulders and your elbows are pointy, due to low resolution. And you have very little expression in your face or movement. That makes a world of difference when someone is visualizing.
[14:12] Olga: Right, the "Uncanny Valley" is a (not very serious) theory about robots, that they become suddenly uncanny to us, when they become too realistic, too close to human beings, unto the point when they reach a more humanoid level, where we start to feel sympathy again. Could you agree with that? (http://www.dansdata.com/gz062.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley)
[14:13] T.B.: I LOVE all my people!!!! lol.... I become very attached to the characters I create. BECAUSE they are so real and BECAUSE I put so much heart into them. They are like family to me.
[14:15] Olga: (smiles) Maybe THAT is a reason they are so uncanny, they trigger something deep inside, I feel.
[14:17] T.B.: Definitely, they do that. I have a story that I have been working on for about 15 years that I finally finished and illustrated, and the main character is so beloved to me.... I actually had to kill her off to get my mind away from using her. I feel the same thing is probably working with that J.K.Rowlings lady and Harry Potter. She has to kill him to stop writing about her boy.
…- I cried
[14:19] Olga: Interesting! So, you do not feel so much difference to writer who creates a character, just that your personae are in a way more real, at least to the eye. However, I must ask the gender question: It is very obvious that almost all (or all ?) your characters are female, what is the reason for that, do you not wish for an alter ego?
[14:22] T.B.: I have an alter ego..... It lives in my drawings... THAT is why they are female to some degree. Also, I feel the female form is stronger physically and emotionally not outwardly but inwardly. They make more interesting subjects for me.
[14:23] Olga: Well, it is also a kind of stereotype in the arts, the female character is the one who suffers or gets objectified. The female character is the surface of projection for the male fantasy
[14:25] T.B.: I am a feminist... I deplore the use of female characters in bondage, s/m, or other inhumane forms in art. My characters are sweet and loving. ANOTHER reason I don't create as many men.... Men are PIGS for the most part and I know this.
Sort of blunt... but, you catch my drift
[14:27] Olga: Mhh, wouldn't it be desirable to find a sensitive and beautiful male character for your family?
[14:28] T.B.: I have a couple of them....... but they are usually stupid........ Except Trindolyn here. (smiles)
[14:29] Olga: Yes, that is something I was thinking of, who is Trindolyn? Is he a work of art?
[14:29] T.B.: I am Trindolyn. And yes, he lives in my art
[14:34] Olga: Let us for a moment talk in the third person, is he a character by himself? …like your models?
[14:35] T.B.: He is a character...... that develops daily. He is a lot like me. Someone I can count on to be ME when I can't.
Trin has the ability to say pretty much anything he wants as long as he doesn't mind pissing people off. I don't have that ability in the least. Grownups don't behave that way. So... In Trin, I can be who I want.
In fact... I have another character on here... who we will not discuss... that can and does anything "she" wants to... she gives me much more freedom than even Trin does.
[14:40] Olga: And both Trin and your mannequins, do they change a lot, do they take up different shapes and different outfits?
I feel it is a very interesting fact that you also have a female avi in SL, but I don't force you to talk about her. (smiles)
[14:41] T.B.: The Poser ladies.... I make new ones a lot but keep the old ones. Trin.. changes clothes.... that's about it.
They fit different scenes from time to time, different clothing, different hair, but it takes me weeks to get them looking good. I will not throw that away.
For instance, the picture of the dollies down there... "Dulali" is actually the same model as the ladies in the "background glass" but I redid the texture of her skin to emulate cloth and stithery. Now, they share a folder on my computer.
[14:45] Olga: Going back to some of your pictures, I like most those, which seem to show very ordinary life scenes, still, I am getting a feeling of (them) being haunted or some crime happening in the back.
[14:46] T.B.: Really?
[14:46] Olga: The ones I took notes of, was "sisters" "the awakening" and "bad girls" - where you don't see any "bad" as obvious in the images. Do you have stories in mind, when creating these scenes?
[14:46] T.B.: Oh sure.... I think of my art as illustration more than any kind of “Fine" art. So most of them are relaying an idea of something.
[14:47] T.B.: However, I prefer the viewer to make their own stories
[14:48] Olga: Humm, what kind of idea is that, is it something like a root of a story, or just a situation?
[14:48] T.B.: Sisters is about just that.... one moment they are loving and sweet and the next they are at each other. Sisters fight!! right?? …out of nowhere sometimes.
Bad girls is showing an image of what I remember in school... mainly with boys but... showing a cute and naughty side of everyone.
Awakening is dark and scary... always some of that around.
[14:51] Olga: Mmmmmmmh… Interesting. There it is again, that twist: you have a scene you remember as boys, and you create a scene with girls !?
[14:51] T.B.: (laughs).. I like girls. It maintains my interest in the long haul of putting them together.
Make sense?
…whereas a dorky man would not.
[14:52] Olga: Yes, of course. I think in art, there is always some kind of erotic moment, and there is nothing bad about that.
[14:53] T.B.: The trick is to make that eroticism not flagerant
[14:54] Olga: I would like to shift our conversation again a bit towards SL. Your making of art with poser is pretty much a very lonely undertaking, do you socialize in SL, and what do you feel about the society that evolves on SL?
[14:56] T.B.: I do socialize in SL. I think its a great way to meet people from all over the world. I spend a lot of time in a place called “Hyles Swamp” just meeting new people, talking and laughing. I also live on a private island with a group of furries that I love very much... we talk and laugh all the time (laughs)..... The good thing is..... I can work on my art WHILE I hang on SL and get a lot more done.
[14:58] Olga: What is the inspiring moment in SL? When does it happen?
[14:59] T.B.: Well, I think it is seeing other peoples "characters" and what they do with them.... It gives another angle to what I am doing
[14:59] T.B.: You for instance
[14:59] Olga: yes?
[14:59] T.B.: I love the shape of your gallery
[14:59] Olga: ooh thank you ;)
[15:00] T.B.: impracticle as it may be... it is different and THAT is important. We can deal with the rest.
[15:08] Olga: I asked you to do a work in SL, and you told me you did that a few times.
[15:09] T.B.: yes?
[15:10] Olga: I asked you mainly, because I am interested what kind of difference it will make for you to work with "real" people (I mean avis, and how would you correctly say: someone “driving” an avi?)
[15:11] T.B.: Well, right off the bat... U CAN'T "drive an avi". The difference would be that I have no control over you. That makes it quite a bit different, and much more difficult to create a vision.
[15:12] Olga: (I was just searching for a GOOD expression)
[15:12] T.B.: Oh i think it was a good expression. I can't take you arm and move it back or change the way you are sitting, or make you smile or frown, or get rid of our obnoxious points.
Now, I can take you and put you in a beautiful setting with the right light but you would still be sitting there in that silly pose they make us do, right?
We WILL do it... I promise.. but it will take a lot of work and CHANCE. Chance is a huge factor with art inworld
[15:17] Olga: Okay, I am very curious about our experiment. Now, I think being close to an end of our interview, I would like to ask you some short questions.
[15:18] T.B.: sure
[15:18] Olga: What do you think about SL art?
[15:19] T.B.: The same thing I think about all art... some of it is wonderful, some is outrageous, some of it makes me sick. I have seen way too much art in my life and have found very little that I really enjoy.
[15:20] Olga: (smiles) How do you feel about SL not being an open society, but basically a big company with corporate rules instead of law.
[15:20] T.B.: I think that would blow.... But, it will probably become true because money rules the world.... When it does... I will move on. To put it simply, I am a huge hater of corporate life... it takes all the art out of everything. I have also learned through 50 years of life that there is not a lot any one person can do about it except try not to join in.
[15:25] Olga: Well, if you look at my interview with GE, he basically states that the longer he works here the more he feels that all his art is dependent on the liking of LL.
(This rising moon is gigantic!!!!!!!)
[15:24] T.B.: I love the moon
[15:25] Olga: Do you feel SL is a platform, or is it a game?
[15:26] T.B.: Both...... it will produce something that we will use daily... at the same time it is a way to forget your troubles... or make new ones. I play the game but it is too close to reality to STAY a game for very long. It becomes real...... peoples lives become entwined. And then it no longer feels like a game.
You wanna know the best part of this "game" for me?
[15:28] Olga: yes
(He offers Olga a hug)
[15:29] Olga: Mmhhh that is sweet.
I have one question left! What does it mean "Tortured artist"? (referring to the group tag Trindolyn is wearing)
[15:31] T.B.: It means, I find no respect as an artist here or in RL.... but then I never expected to
[15:31] Olga: Thank you so much, it was a pleasure to talk to you!
[15:31] T.B.: You are welcome... bye Olga
[15:32] Olga: Bye, Trindolyn.

Links:
Artist Trindolyn Beck aka Stephen Kauble:
http://www.stephen-a-kauble.com/
Galleria LX:
http://sl2worlds.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/trindolyn-beck/
Gallery Oculus (SLURL:)
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Belial/212/48/45

"Zombie Attack! 28 Avatars Later" - SF performance

2007-08-12T10:19:00.000-07:00

After our Interview, Great Escape from the performance group Second Front invited me to join in into their next big performance. - Hard stuff, as I not only knew a bit of what was coming up, but it also was starting at 4:00 am my time. I joined in, half asleep, but then everything happened so rappidely and it was, yes, fun, that I had two hours of "dancing", following teleports and meeting people under weird circumstances. I also found it quite impressive, how easily I started to fit into the role and was looking very differently at normal avatars.
But here is a collection of my images:

The peformance started off at the "Stuff on Pikes" graveyard, I was just teleported there, so I did not know where I was. I would otherwise possibly have made some pictures of the graves. When I arrived I was given a "teddy bear" and a skin to wear. If you look on the SF blog entry about the performance, you will see images of my transformation. Wearing those made me "affected". I started to dance, and bite into others and objects around me. I also made a terrible sound: "Oh my god! Oh my god!"
On the upper left there is Gazira Babeli, on the other images friends of SF, who have already been affected. The affected girl on the left seemed to run away, when I was taking the picture.

The girl with the green skin seemed to be the owner of the graveyard, and she happily joined in into the dance of the dead, her green skin prevented her from showing rotten flesh, as we believe. Then we moved to a Zombie cellar, where we practiced our zombie dance. When I stepped one floor deeper down, I suddenly was surrounded by more zombies, who did not belong to the group. Luckily I was teleported out and we met at New Paris to dance our dead dance on the Eiffel Tower.

In New Paris it was much fun, and I found several people to dance with, one of which was Tea Chenille, in the smooth summer night. Before we left, it started to rain brains. We missed the stop at the public sandbox and were directly teleported to an Irish pub, where people seemed to have much fun about our appearance. Then, the group decided to go to Rausch's Combat Sim, where the group had already done a performance some time ago. There, I met a strange guy, who seemed to be amused and started to talk to him, while he was trying out some strange weapon made out of semi-transparent objects, which killed us, the already dead and sent us "back home". Funnily, after he also had killed me, he asked me to come back, and was disappointed when I came alone. I guess he wanted to try out a much larger weapon. I had a good laugh and stated, that his humor was not very different to our humor. But he resisted and did not take on my offer for a kiss.
I tried to call for being teleported to join the others, but at that point the performance was already over. I only heard, that the group possibly brought the Sim where they were last to crash. - Many thanks top Great Escape and Gazira Babeli, and all others for having me with them and joining into the performance.

Please visit the Second Front Blog with more images and some videos about the performance "Zombie Attack! 28 Avatars Later"
http://slfront.blogspot.com/

Find more photos like this on Odyssey Contemporary Art and Performance

Great Escape - artist

2007-07-16T13:04:00.000-07:00

Great Escape is an artist both in SL and in RL. He is one of the early members of the SL performance group Second Front. The group focuses on collaborative performances in Second Life. And, I met Great Escape, who likes to be called GE, after I watched the Pizza Slut Performance on May 24 2007, or better saying, after I took part in it. The idea of the performance was basically to deliver pizza to people who like to order one, and then to make a party out of it, offering free pizza to everybody around. Performers would wear pizza as coats, or wear pizzas on their head, others would drive delivery vans. When I arrived to the home base of Second Front, Gazira Babeli, another member of Second Front, immediately asked me to join the performance and drive an UPS van, which was redecorated as a pizza delivery van. It was much fun to do that, but also made me vulnerable and put me on display, in such ways that in the two hot spots where the group got in trouble: at the SL Stock Exchange and at Cloud Lounge, I was not able to take pictures, as first, I was teleported in late and second, I was banned immediately after arrival. The issue of being banned as a performance artist thus also became an important point in our discussion.

However, in the interview we take the opportunity of the Pizza Slut performance to talk about larger issues of art and performance in Second Life. So, although this posting comes quite late (many appologies to everybody involved!), I think it is still worth posting and - for you – reading about the experiences of GE as artist in Second Life.

[0:03] Great Escape: hey Olga!
[0:03] Olga Wunderlich: Hey!! you are there! great! GE!
[0:03] GE: I'm an avatar of my word ;)
[0:11] Olga: Is this your own land?
[0:11] GE: Yea, this is my place. Remember when we got booted from the stock exchange? Well, my next door neighbors were on the board! Sheer coincidence.
[0:12] Olga: Ooh! did you have a talk about the performance?

[0:12] GE: They were pissed at me for a little bit and banned me from their land. Which was annoying. But when I explained what we were doing, they thought it was funny and all was resolved.
They thought I was deliberately harassing them!
[0:13] Olga: Great then, that you could talk with them
[0:14] GE: Glad it got resolved is all. For a while there, I was bummed out to have a barrier on the south side of my place.
[0:14] Olga: Did they recognize you?
[0:15] GE: They recognized my name at the performance...as one of their neighbors. They IM'd me at the time and I didn't know who they were and was a little unabashed.
So, do you want to finally do our official interview ;) Now that you've performed with us...
[0:19] Olga: Well, do you tell me first how long have you been in SL and for how long do you make art here?
[0:19] GE: Let me check my profile...It says July 21st, 2006.
[0:20] Olga: ;) Did you come to SL with the intension to make art?
[0:20] GE: SL began as a research project. I was in a residency at the Banff Centre for the Arts in a collaboration. With Victoria Scott, another artist. * incidentally, my RL name is public. We were looking at online relational spaces: MySpace, Friendster, FaceBook and also Second Life.

[0:22] Olga: Do you tell me shortly about the center and your research?
[0:22] GE: Sure thing. The Banff Centre for the Arts has thematic residencies. Ours was called the "Future of Idea Art" -- e.g. a conceptual art residency. The Banff Centre is in the Canadian Rockies, kind of near Alberta. Very isolated and very beautiful. Wonderful place. So, we got accepted in as a collaborative duo.
[0:24] Olga: And have you, together with Victoria, been the only one who were checking out SL?
[0:25] GE: Yes, we were the only ones looking at Second Life.
[0:25] Olga: (can we sit on the sofa? please? is that possible?)
[0:25] GE: (sure...the box is hurting my butt)
[0:26] GE: We look like little kids on our parents sofa!
[0:26] Olga: Right!
[0:29] GE: hehehe;
We were researching ways to build physical models of online relational spaces. Like MySpace & SL. Using common construction materials, and without technology. Psychological representations, that is.
SL posed difficulties. It was different than other spaces, because of the simulated physicality. I started spending more and more time exploring the geography there...but no real friends on SL.
[0:32] Olga: Was it difficult to make a physical abstraction, because it already has some kind of physical representation?
[0:33] GE: Yes, and also because we were looking for ways to model the psychology of the space. We came up with a project called 2x2. Its on my website (www.kildall.com). Also a smaller project called the "Tile Project" which I haven't finished documenting yet. So, it ended up being a productive period.
[0:35] Olga: And what made you stay in SL?
[0:36] GE: At the same time, during the residency, I started experimenting with large-sized prints. My avatar in various found geography. And then after the residency was over (early Nov, 2006), I began to work on some prints from SL. These are also on my site... ”Paradise Ahead” is the name of the series.
[0:38] Olga: ahh okay, those with geographical representation?

[0:38] GE: geography plus recreated moments from art. 12 prints in total.
[0:39] Olga: Is “Leap into Space” one of those?
[0:39] GE: yes.
[0:39] Olga: And, each depicts moments of anticipation and excitement related to virtual worlds.
[0:40] Olga: That is a nice explanation, it really makes sense to me.
[0:40] GE: thanks.
[0:41] Olga: It is interesting to me, that you had this themed work and professional oriented view onto SL when you started to be here. Did that change over time?
[0:41] GE: It sure did. During the residency, I gave a talk on SL. I signed up about 6 people on the spot.
[0:42] Olga: Artist friends?
[0:42] GE: Yes, all artists that I knew in RL. Tran Spire from Second Front was one of them...a.k.a. Doug Jarvis. About 2 weeks after the residency, he emailed me about Second Front. I went online and met everyone and we did our first performance a couple days later.
[0:43] Olga: Wow, that was quick.
[0:44] GE: Things happen fast in SL.
[0:44] Olga: Do you also socialize with other people in SL?
[0:44] GE: I'm not as extroverted in SL as I am in RL! I meet a lot of people and end up making friends with people who are mostly other artists and are interested in what we do. I have a few other non-artist friends in SL.
[0:46] Olga: That is interesting - most people are the other way around. They use SL to explore there more communicative and extroverted side.
[0:46] GE: I think I use it to check out my introverted self. The first 3 months I was on, I didn't meet anyone.
I'd just teleport around and check out places. I was fascinated with what people were building. Notions of architecture were strangely boring. Lots of RL-looking condos. I think during the residency, there wasn't a lot of private space, so SL was my private zone.
Non-commercial areas give people the freedom to build all sorts of idealized visions of what they want. It can be factories, tract houses, space lounges, anything. It's fascinating to see what people come up with.
[0:59] Olga: What is a public space for you in SL? I mean everything is privately owned.
[0:59] GE: Good question! The line between public and private is ambiguous. Public is anything you can go into and feel like its yours and not someone elses. It can be gardens, parks. But also lounges and bars. What's weird about SL is that most places are empty - like a ghost town.
[1:02] Olga: I am very interested in the question of public and public space in SL, and I wonder what it does to a space, if it is: first of all privately owned, I mean there is no common grounds in SL , and second, as you say empty.
[1:03] GE: But also, as long as there are no barriers to entry (like most places), you can trespass and go into anyone's house. There isn't a lot of true 'private space' ... not like RL. Except maybe some of the specialty sims like Gorean or Furries.
[1:06] Olga: Okay, I would like to nail you down a bit more: firstly you were interested in these spaces as representative spaces for the people who built it. And now it seems you are mostly doing performances, which is a very social activity. Can you help me with how you bridge from one to the other?
[1:07] GE: Sure. I think they're tied together. The performances entail many things. But one that is important for me is about engaging the public in a way that challenges expected behavior. Like traditional performance, the boundaries between audience and performer become unclear. Like with AllenVest (His neighbour who is involved with the stock exchange). They became part of our performance (the Pizza Performance) because they had a hostile reaction. All the performances take place in the spaces of representation.
“Martyr Sauce” (a pacifist performance) was in the combat sim. People didn't expect a bunch of hippies to come there. AllenVest didn't expect Pizza deliveries. The performance are an active way to look at how the space can be used and not just what it looks like from an architectural standpoint. I think performance is important in this environment because social rules have yet to be defined. There's still a lot of openness here.

[1:12] Olga: I think we should talk a bit more about the Pizza Delivery performance, would you shortly describe what you did and where the idea came from?
[1:12] GE: the idea originally came from reports that Dominos Pizza was opening a branch in SL. Dominos is a huge pizza chain in RL in the U.S. We decided to get involved in doing pizza deliveries to Dominos and did some research. I think you can order a RL pizza through SL. It’s a way for Dominos to sell more pizzas in RL. An advertising gimmick.
[1:17] GE: There is another pizzeria called Pizza Sublimi that delivers pizzas in SL, for 75 lindens each.
[1:17] Olga: oohh wow, that is quite a price!
[1:18] GE: 75 Lindens...only 25 cents in RL. Not much to pay for artwork.
I got one of their delivery people to join us for the performance. I would ask her to give pizzas to different people.
[1:19] Olga: Okay, and you had people ordering pizza? or did you deliver just to the places who called at Dominos?

[1:19] GE: Well, turns out Dominos wasn't yet on SL. So we improvised the performance. We went to Pizza Meister which looks like a pizza place. And then started delivering pizzas to friends of ours as a surprise.
[1:20] Olga: Ahh, okay, now it becomes more clear to me. We also went to the stock exchange did you have a friend there as well?
[1:21] GE: We delivered pizza first to Rubaiyat Shatner, a friend, and then to In Kenzo, someone else I know. Then, Wirxli IM'd a reporter friend of his. And she said she'd like a pizza from Second Front. But was at Allen Vest at a big stock meeting. We didn't know where we were going and then TP'd into the meeting. Well, you saw what happened from there.
[1:23] Olga: Well, I did not see much, when I arrived I was expelled right away, I only lasted a couple of.
[1:24] GE: The next place was a cloud lounge that Aliselborg TP'd us to. It was a place for couples.
[1:25] Olga: There I could at least take two pictures, but then I was not only expelled but also banned.
[1:25] GE: ):

[1:26] Olga: Did you expect the kind of strong reaction? I mean banning people is quite a strong reaction, almost the strongest you can have.
[1:27] GE: I didn't expect the reaction at all from Allen Vest. I mean, we were invited after all. But, the cloud lounge doesn't surprise me.
[1:28] Olga: Why is that?
[1:29] GE: When you get to the Cloud Lounge, there tell you what is the purpose of the place...for relaxation and basically nothing weird.
[1:31] Olga: I know that Gazira like to provoke and she thinks a ban is a cool reaction from the people. I would like to know, what you feel is the difference to acts from griefers who basically also just like to provoke and have reactions form people
[1:32] GE: I can't really speak for Gazira's motivations.
[1:32] Olga: no. talk about yours
[1:32] GE: ok. I think griefing is a really general and subjective term. In an extreme form, it can be a way to make someone feel violated or threatened. I don't consider myself a griefer.
[1:34] Olga: Well, I guess the stock market people felt violated, you can feel that out of the reactions they told to your friend from the press.

[1:35] GE: I'm not interested in provoking people for the sake of provocation. But, select the ways in which we do performances and the places. With Allen Vest, we did not have intention to go and harass them. But, thought we were delivering pizzas to a colleague.
[1:37] Olga: I like to know more about your aims for performances.
[1:37] GE: I think for the performances, there are many goals.
For me... One is like I said to make people question social rules. Is it okay to have a band of people delivering pizzas in Second Life? Most people think about SL as a place for selling things, meeting people, sexual relations, gambling. I think there's a lot more activity that can be incredibly creative.
Second goal: to open up art practices in virtual worlds. Lots of questions here: what does it mean to have networked performance with anonymous people. It's a huge field of exploration and I find it incredibly exciting to be at the front of it.
Third: to see what we are capable of as a group.
[1:41] Olga: with networked performance you mean something like I came to your performance and immediately got invited to drive a van?
[1:42] GE: Yes, that's part of it. The viewer becomes performer.
[1:43] Olga: Is it important for you that people know that it is art what you are doing?

[1:44] GE: In my profile, I state what I am doing and I have a link to the blog. Also I always have the "Second Front" title above my head.
[1:44] GE: (just fixed that)
[1:44] Olga: He he he - in a way is it also a goal to reach new and different people with art?
[1:46] GE: For certain. It's so hard to tell how people will be reached. We're operating in unknown channels. SL has a lot of potential. I think this is only the beginning of what people will be doing in SL.
[1:48] Olga: I understand the enthousiasm of the new possibilties, (like physically impossible things you can do in SL) and the openness of people, which makes them more receptive for interaction. But I also wonder a bit that you seem to have no problems with the whole commercial aspect of SL, of its non-democratic foundation.
1. that every space is privatley owned, there are no public commons
[1:50] GE: heh using my words ;)

[1:50] Olga: 2. the whole set of SL is a private setting, we are part of a commercail game. There is not even a right for me, very few public laws applicate, we are under the private rules of a cooperation. Not under law.
[1:52] GE: I agree, this is problematic.
[1:52] Olga: To me it seemed that it is not bothering you, or at least it does not play a role in your performances?
[1:52] GE: If Linden Labs doesn't approve of what we're doing here, they can terminate my account. So, there's not that much security in SL since there is no accountablity. So far, this has only played a small role in the performances. Well, maybe it will play a bigger and bigger one.
[1:54] Olga: in which ways do you think it plays a role for you?
[1:54] GE: Lately, I've been re-thinking the structure of SL. Ever since the Pizza SLut performance, I feel like I have to consider my actions more thoughtfully. Allen Vest threatened to report us to Linden Labs for griefing and threatened Gazira with blocking her IP. I thought about what happens if everything in SL goes away for me.

[1:56] GE: A lesson in non-attachment forms of Buddhism ;)
[1:56] Olga: ?? i don't understand this sentence
[1:57] GE: Ah. Lessons in non-attachment...i.e. not worrying about losing something too much.
[1:57] GE: I think for me, my artistic practice is not tied to SL.
[1:58] GE: If SL suddenly dies or I can't get on, then no more Second Front for me.
[1:58] GE: And I move onto other media.
[2:01] Olga: But, I was going to ask another question. How important is your art practise in SL for you in comparison with yor RL art practise?
[2:02] GE: k.
[2:02] GE: Art practice in SL is just part of my RL practice. I have a couple projects in SL but a number more in RL.
[2:04] Olga: Well, but that means it is more important to have it publicly reviewed in RL then it is for you in SL?

[2:04] GE: For me, it's important to bring SL work into RL. Otherwise, the audience is really limited. SL reviews are good; so are RL reviews. But my prints are for RL galleries, not for SL galleries. Second Front is developing more of an RL presence. I have had shows in RL galleries twice now.
[2:05] Olga: ooh okay, that is interesting for me - that was an important point for me.
Okay, I guess I should leave you although I still have one provocative statement/question
[2:08] GE: ok, one more ;)
[2:09] Olga: If I would be harsh on you, I could say, that in certain ways you are still looking a lot from the outside, from a RL point of view onto SL. Still a bit like looking at an exotic place. Is that true?
[2:11] GE: It is hard to say. RL and SL are confusing boundaries. They're different for each person.
[2:12] Olga: is it maybe important for you to have a kind of outside view, to be more like an observer, in order to make art?

Links:
Great Escape aka Scott Kildall:
http://www.kildall.com/
Second Front blog:
http://slfront.blogspot.com/
Pizza Slut Performance
http://slfront.blogspot.com/2007/05/intermezzo-di-pazzo.html
http://slfront.blogspot.com/2007/05/pizza-slut-liz-solos-pov.html
http://slfront.blogspot.com/2007/05/pizza-sluts-snapshots-from-wirxli.html
Pizza Slut on the front page of SL Enquirer
http://slfront.blogspot.com/2007/05/pizza-sluts-on-front-page-of-slenquirer.html

Odyssey Network
About ordering pizza in-world:
SLNN news
Second Life Research

Art Show at FLEUR DE LYS

2007-03-28T09:16:00.000-07:00

Olga Wunderlich and Anderson Philbin
kindly invite you to the opening of Fleur de Lys.

Thursday, 5 April
2 pm PDT - 23:00 European Time
opening gala
at Kali Commercial (136, 47, 22)
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Kali%20Commercial/132/4/21

FLEUR DE LYS
the new mall on Kali
will soon offer you exquisite garments and extraordinary goods.
Combined with an interesting view on newest art of Second Life artists.

For this opening gala, we open our new space to artists.
Please come to see works by
Aristide Zabelin
Catriona deCuir
Geyl Fapp
Sniffer Zemlja

Come and be delighted by a wonderful dance presentation
showing silks by Avana'she
and led by Patty Cortes.

Mall Management: Anderson Philbin, Olga Wunderlich
Art Director: Olga Wunderlich
Art Management: Patty Cortes

We hope to see you there,
Olga and Anderson

-----------
PLEASE ALSO COME TO OUR PRESS PREVIEW
3 am PDT - 12:00 noon
Thursday, 3 April 2007

Modern Dance Theatre SL and RL performance

2007-03-14T07:18:00.000-07:00

Interview with Epletre Asp, member of MDT, Modern Dance Theatre group. We are talking about the MDT performance on Friday, 9 March 2007, simultaneously in SL, at The Office and in Stockholm. The event was shown in both places, as streaming in SL and projection from computers in Stockholm. We were meeting on the following Monday at The Office. All images taken and copyright by Olga Wunderlich.

[6:37] Olga: I see you in performance outfit! Very nice!
[6:38] E. Asp: I still did not get changed since Friday.
[6:38] Olga: Ohh! Stay like that I might take another picture! I like the red eyes!
[6:45] Olga: I would like to safe our conversation, but I might edit and shorten it a bit.
[6:45] E. Asp: no problem
[6:46] Olga: Would you tell me, what you found most interesting with my first interview?
[6:47] E. Asp: Your discussion on how to use SL and the concern of rights, copyrights, freedom and ownership.
[6:47] Olga: Is that something, you are concerned in your work as well?
[6:48] E. Asp: Maybe. I see SL mostly as an open source, and I am interested in the fact that everybody can do what ever he or she like.
[6:48] E. Asp: I mean, for our performance we did not create any dances ourselves...
[6:49] E. Asp: we put together a list of different dances made by others, and some that we borrowed that were made by real life dancers and motion capture.
[6:49] Olga: The dances were practicably ready-mades...?
[6:50] E. Asp: Yes, apart from those made by motion capture.
[6:50] Olga: Who was doing those for you?
[6:52] E. Asp: They were made by two choreographers in a project called The Adventure for Impulztanze in Vienna the summer 2006.
[6:53] E. Asp: The choreographers are called Marie Claire Forte and Christina Vassiliou
[6:53] Olga: Ah, great!
[6:50] E. Asp: Or, they were made already as well, but not originally in SL.
[6:52] E. Asp: They were partly made by real dancers dancing with a motion capture detector attached to their bodies, and then transformed into 3D.
[6:51] Olga: Can you bring in any 3-D character animation into SL?
[6:53] E. Asp: I don't really know how it is done
[6:53] Olga: Motion capture is still an expensive technology, if you don't collaborate with an institute, I guess.
[6:54] E. Asp: Yes, one needs to have the right equipment
[6:54] E. Asp: We got a special deal and were able to borrow the moves from Kapital Metropolitan, she was a part in that project in Vienna.
[6:54] Olga: The basic group of MDT is three people, am I right?
[6:55] E. Asp: Now we are four!
[6:55] Olga: Who are the people involved?
[6:55] E. Asp: that is Cardinal Krams, Kim Lukas and Famous Zhichao, and me.
[6:55] E. Asp: Famous did the scripted scenes.
[6:56] Olga: And Famous Zhichao just joined for the new performance last week?
[6:56] E. Asp: Yes, but now we work all together as one team.
[6:57] E. Asp: Also, we are invited to do a project at Steirischer Herbst cultural festival in September this year
[6:57] E. Asp: ...so we will continue to work on this project.
[6:57] Olga: Wow that is great! Congratulations! - Are you still students?
[6:57] E. Asp: Thank you! :-) Yes, we are all still students.
[6:58] Olga: Do you see any professional use for what you are doing as MDT?
[6:58] Olga: After finishing studies?
[6:58] E. Asp: I think, it is really great as a tool to get in touch with people and create contacts
[6:59] E. Asp: ...and it is great as a way of discussing space and architecture.
[6:59] Olga: Mmh! I understand, yes, this is also what interested me about your project!
[7:00] Olga: Do you do any link with life performance in RL? I could not make out any performer on the screen from RL.
[7:01] E. Asp: Not this time. We wanted to question the role of the audience, and make the audience into a performer as well
[7:01] Olga: The audience in the exhibition space?
[7:01] E. Asp: Yes...
[7:02] E. Asp: ...but, the Swedes are a bit shy, so it took very long before people started to walk between the screens.
[7:02] Olga: Did you give them any instructions for movements?
[7:02] E. Asp: No, we wanted them to move around freely.
[7:03] Olga: Well, I felt that they were caught in their shyness and traditional role of exhibition visitors. In my opinion.
[7:03] E. Asp: Yes, I think you are right about that.
[7:03] E. Asp: It was very nice, when some children came, they started to dance with the avatars immediately!
[7:03] E. Asp: ...and were very amused to see their own shadows on the screens with the avatars.
[7:04] Olga: Yes, children are great in that regard!
[7:04] E. Asp: :-)
[7:04] E. Asp: I think for a further development of the project, we would like to work with RL performers as well!
[7:04] Olga: How many streams did you have in SL?
[7:05] E. Asp: We had two, one for video and one for music.
[7:05] E. Asp: It was really sad that some of the audience were not able to see the stream.
[7:06] E. Asp: Oh, and from time to time, we had streams on the stage walls.
[7:05] Olga: Interesting, I thought the two screens were different.
[7:06] Olga: Did you use any other technique for the projection then just a view of an avatar for the RL screens?
[7:07] E. Asp: We had fixed cameras for the four screens in RL. So there were four streams from SL to RL
[7:07] E. Asp: ...and then a lot of computers standing in the room, allowing the audience to see different views as well.
[7:07] Olga: Are you using the Quicktime Movie capture features of SL for that?
[7:08] E. Asp: Not for the projections in RL. We just fixed projectors to the computers.
[7:08] Olga: Okay, interesting.
[7:09] Olga: And was there another temporary stream on the sidewall, or was it the same image?
[7:09] E. Asp: on the sidewalls it was the same image, but we had to remove it because it really made everything lag.
[7:10] Olga: Ahh, okay!
[7:10] E. Asp: One video stream in SL was about what we could handle.
[7:11] Olga: You had other technical difficulties, at the beginning you announced that the audience seats would go away and the visitor avis would be animated - that did not happen did it?
[7:12] E. Asp: No, that did not happen. However, at the end we opened the stage for all to dance, and then many visiting avatars got animated to dance synchronized with us.
[7:12] E. Asp: I think one row of the seats appeared and disappeared after people were sitting, but the rest were fixed.
[7:12] Olga: However, was it planned differently?
[7:13] E. Asp: No, it worked pretty much after the plan!
[7:14] E. Asp: I think for the SL audience it got probably too long and boring, but for the RL audience it worked very well.
[7:14] E. Asp: ...people were coming and going much more, not sitting, and still waiting
[7:14] Olga: Well, then I misread your announcement, and I was a little disappointed, there was not more happening with me.
[7:15] E. Asp: Sure, but then we thought it was very nice when the stage was open to all, and people were dancing :-)
[7:15] Olga: Yes! That was very relieving, and people enjoyed it a lot!
[7:15] Olga: I was still very satisfied about the image the audience created, it made the illusion of a theatre space complete.
[7:15] E. Asp: However, the SL audience were the ones changing the appearance of the stage.
[7:16] E. Asp: The audience sitting on different scripted seats created the shifting colours and particle effects etc.
[7:16] E. Asp: So in that sense the SL audience animated the room/space in Stockholm.
[7:16] Olga: Was that planned as well?
[7:17] E. Asp: Yes, that was the stage design by Famous Zichaou
[7:17] E. Asp: We wanted the SL audience to have an active part of the performance as well.
[7:17] Olga: Cool! - What I also felt interesting is that I was able to have a totally different view onto a theatre or performance space.
[7:18] E. Asp: Yes, that is very interesting.
[7:18] E. Asp: ...and one of the possibilities of SL.
[7:19] Olga: I left my avi on the seat, became part of the image, the illusion of theatre, and then, I was cruising with my camera and looking for interesting angles of view.
[7:19] Olga: That was quite a unique experience.
[7:19] E. Asp: yes it really is!
[7:19] E. Asp: I think that is something we would want to work further with, as well!
[7:20] Olga: Are your performances all connected with some kind of theatre space and life stream?
[7:21] E. Asp: We have only had two performances so far, and both of them have been more or less connected to that, yes!
[7:21] E. Asp: In a way it is quite ironic with the theatre space since architecture in SL is only a mere image, with no function.
[7:22] E. Asp: ...just a representation of something.
[7:24] Olga: Are you in any ways interested in public issues? I mean art in SL has a very different notion than in RL.
[7:25] E. Asp: I think what is great with SL is that for example, in order to dance in a dance performance, you don't have to be a dancer. Here we can all be dancers, we all can be artists.
[7:26] E. Asp: We discussed that quite a bit, and we think that is great!
[7:27] Olga: You don't need training as a dancer that is true, but you are also caught in pre-designed movements, unless you are having sophisticated controls that are not easy to handle, either.
[7:27] E. Asp: Very true!
[7:28] E. Asp: In SL someone very good with computers, scripting and so on can be a dancer, but in RL a trained dancer is a dancer. it is a change of roles.
[7:28] Olga: Yes I agree!
[7:28] Olga: How about the audience in SL? It could be that it is quite a different audience than the normal art-goers?
[7:29] E. Asp: That is also true, but what is great with the SL audience is that they are giving very direct feedback to what we are doing.
[7:29] Olga: How about audience addressing, do you try to address a very different audience?
[7:30] E. Asp: I don't think we have considered so much who our audiences are.
[7:30] E. Asp: we started this as a school project, exploring the translation of an existing institution into SL, and then we moved on from there...
[7:31] E. Asp: ...creating our own performances and installations.
[7:31] Olga: The collaboration with pirate cinema last time caught quite some interest in a political left wing scene, how do you feel about that?
[7:32] E. Asp: I think that is great!
[7:32] E. Asp: ...bringing on a discussion.
[7:34] Olga: One might question the idea of a public in SL as such: in the big picture, it is a private company who provides the space. It is all private space, and it is a discussion of customers about customer's rights rather than a democracy. What would you think about such a statement?
[7:35] E. Asp: I would prefer not to take this to a political statement, but of course one can always question the fact that it is a privately owned space ...and what the aims are.
[7:36] E. Asp: ...and the aim of the different users.
[7:36] Olga: Okay, I understand.
[7:38] E. Asp: I think one always has to remember to be critical to public space such as internet, and people's intentions.
[7:38] Olga: Can you go on a bit more, about what you do mean with that?
[7:38] E. Asp: Anonymity is great, but also difficult...
[7:39] Olga: Did you have any problems with anonymity? of other people?
[7:40] E. Asp: Not in this project, since we have mostly worked on our own.
[7:40] Olga: In other projects, then?
[7:41] E. Asp: Sometimes people have agendas not matching the ones of your own agenda.
[7:41] Olga: Could you be a bit more specific, do you have an example?
[7:41] E. Asp: But, of course, one doesn't have to talk to people one does not like :-)
[7:42] Olga: ??
[7:43] E. Asp: Just saying that a lot of people in SL are mostly interested in sex, or selling stuff, even though in the beginning they might give an impression of wanting to discuss other things...
[7:43] E. Asp: We have been quite busy with our work though, so we have not had so much time talking to people, lately.
[7:44] E. Asp: Setting up the performance has been time-consuming, but very fun!
[7:45] Olga: Mmmh interesting, but I now have an idea of what you were talking about before.
[7:45] Olga: You are a students' collective, do you think, you will continue as MDT after you finished studies? Do you have that as a perspective?
[7:46] E. Asp: Right now, our main perspective is the cultural festival in September, but that will be after this course is finished, so we will go on and see where it leads to, in the end.
[7:46] Olga: Great - that sounds promising!
[7:46] E. Asp: We have our final critique on this project this coming Friday.
[7:47] Olga: Well I will try to have my web blog with this interview up, until then, that might add something to it ;)
[7:47] E. Asp: We just think it is really fun with feedback and the fact that people are interested, so then we don't see any reason to stop now ;-)
[7:48] E. Asp: hehehe :-)
[7:48] E. Asp: Great!
[7:48] Olga: Did you find other art projects in SL you became interested in. Are there similar activities?
[7:49] E. Asp: we have not had so much time to look for other performances yet, maybe we will get some more time for that now that the performance is over
[7:49] E. Asp: I know there was an SL ballet, but we never got to see it.
[7:50] E. Asp: I think it was a bit more SL organized, though, not blending with RL.
[7:51] E. Asp: Of course, there are dj's and music artists, but we have not been in touch with any other projects, apart from the Rocky Horror Picture Show screening.
[7:52] Olga: What do you think of a project like the MOMA in SL?
[7:52] E. Asp: I have not seen it...
[7:53] E. Asp: ...as an idea, I think it could be interesting. But I think it should reflect of how to show and how to view art in SL.
[7:54] Olga: that was my question ;)
[7:54] E. Asp: What possibilities one could have as an institution...
[7:54] E. Asp: ...a bit more interesting than seeing pictures on a wall
[7:54] E. Asp: :-)
[7:54] Olga: I totally agree!
[7:54] E. Asp: it seems quite difficult though in SL
[7:55] E. Asp: Things are very conventional, here.
[7:55] E. Asp: People seem to want an environment they can recognize.
[7:56] Olga: Yes, I feel that this is a big problem with 3-D anim anyway, it is much closer to a traditional view of reality than any other media.
[8:00] Olga: Okay, I think I am running out of questions, is there anything you would like to add about MDT? Is there anything coming up?
[8:00] E. Asp: It has been very nice talking to you!
[8:00] E. Asp: At the moment we are working on a web page...
[8:01] E. Asp: ..presenting the project, and then we will work towards the festival in September.
[8:00] Olga: It was very nice talking to you indeed!
[8:01] Olga: Well it seems I was very lucky to see the two performances, then! ;)
[8:02] E. Asp: :-)
[8:03] Olga: See you soon, you too! And good luck with the critique!
[8:03] E. Asp: thanks!

Rocky Horror Picture Show - live streaming in SL

2007-03-07T17:33:00.000-08:00

Interview with Heathcliff Cardiff on Friday, 2 March, 2007 . On the next day of the streaming of the Rocky Horror Picture Show at The Office.height: 241px;" src="http://bp3.blogger.com/_Ts0VqBL-7zI/Re-A1CTWsyI/AAAAAAAAAAM/om6zAo4brjM/s320/RockySnapshot_001.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5039388156690346786" border="0" />

[7:34] Olga: Hi H.! Sorry for coming in so late. Would you have some spare time?
[7:34] H. Cardiff: sure, no problem
[7:37] Olga: Could we go IM, I would like to save our conversation ;)
[7:39] H. Cardiff: no problem
[7:39] Olga: I was very interested in your project (Rocky Horror Picture Show streaming), first, it is the first art related project I have seen in SL, I like.
[7:40] Olga: Second, because it rises issues of public and private space in SL.
[7:40] Olga: But I am also interested in the technical issues.
[7:40] Olga: Do you do such events on a regular base?
[7:41] H. Cardiff: No, that was actually the first one.
[7:41] H. Cardiff: We are a class of students at the school of architecture in Stockholm
[7:42] H. Cardiff: ...and that was one of the projects that our class is doing right now.
[7:43] H. Cardiff: This is a course that will last a couple of weeks more, and then we will review the final projects
[7:42] Olga: Cool! And are you directly related to Pirate Cinema and/or Second Life Liberation Army?
[7:43] H. Cardiff: not really
[7:43] H. Cardiff is typing...
[7:43] H. Cardiff: actually I was only helping with the cinema project
[7:44] H. Cardiff: it was conceived by three girls in my class and we were a couple of people helping out.
[7:44] Olga: Okay, I will still ask you my questions, maybe you could also give me some other address, later on.
[7:44] H. Cardiff: absolutely
[7:45] Olga: Do you know if there were any special permissions asked in order to do the screenings, or has your school a direct link to SL?
[7:46] H. Cardiff: No permissions for the screening.
[7:46] H. Cardiff: And that actually caused us a big deal of trouble yesterday...
[7:47] Olga: ok go on
[7:48] H. Cardiff: The Swedish Anti Piracy Agency started to make a lot of phone calls to people at our school and people responsible for the place we did the screening in.
[7:48] H. Cardiff: threating with lawsuits an such.
[7:48] Olga: How is that what was the cause?
[7:49] H. Cardiff: I think the people at the piratecinema organization did a lot of pres release stuff and that got the attention of the anti piracy agency
[7:50] Olga: Is that a state agency, the issue copyright law?
[7:50] H. Cardiff: Absolutely not, they are trying to act like one though and that is what's scary about them.
[7:51] H. Cardiff: they are a private organization funded by the record/movie/software industry and their organizations.
[7:52] Olga: Okay! But you did not even show the movie on the screen in SL it was only the audience!
[7:52] H. Cardiff: Yeah, at first.
[7:52] H. Cardiff: That was not the intention, but people got scared because of the threats.
[7:53] H. Cardiff: We later turned the camera around though, and the movie was shown.
[7:54] Olga: Ah, I did not see that, my Quicklime connection did not work at that time any more!
[7:54] Olga: But I was wondering, it would have been only half of the fun seeing only the audience.
[7:54] H. Cardiff: Of course...
[7:55] Olga: Okay, but you did not have any issues with SL owners, the Lindens.
[7:55] H. Cardiff: None at all, actually.
[7:56] H. Cardiff: I don't know what their policy in this issues is.
[7:56] Olga: Do you have special permissions on your land to do heavy stuff, it must be a big server load.
[7:56] Olga: I think they are concerned about traffic and lag.
[7:57] H. Cardiff: Yes, this island is owned by Kapital Metropolitan, who is the professor of this course at our school.
[7:57] Olga: And he got special permissions for experiments?
[7:58] H. Cardiff: No, but as a land owner you are permitted to set up video/audio streams, and you can set permissions for how many avatars can visit your island
[7:59] H. Cardiff: it's tricky to set up more than one stream at a time though.
[7:59] Olga: Has there been more than one? I only saw the big screen.
[8:00] H. Cardiff: No, there was only one.
[8:00] H. Cardiff: The optimal solution would be one stream of the movie and an other one of the audience.
[8:00] H. Cardiff: But we were only able to get one stream working
[8:01] Olga: OK. But the online streaming is something anybody can do who owns land and has access to a streaming server.
[8:01] H. Cardiff: that is correct
[8:01] Olga: And the event at the Office was also shown in the cinema?
[8:02] H. Cardiff: Yes, we had a room set up with six projectors...
[8:02] H. Cardiff: ...one showing the movie and five the theatre in SL.
[8:02] H. Cardiff: Your conversation with me was actually shown on one of the walls :)
[8:03] Olga: You had several avis looking at the show?
[8:03] H. Cardiff: Yes
[8:03] Olga: Ohh! great!
[8:03] Olga: Did you have any responses from ppl in the cinema?
[8:04] H. Cardiff: To some extent yes, but people in RL were mostly concerned with the movie.
[8:04] H. Cardiff: I think we were about ten to fifteen people online with notebooks in the room, though.
[8:05] Olga: But the projections where all in the same space?
[8:05] H. Cardiff: Yes
[8:05] Olga: sorry about my English!
[8:05] H. Cardiff: no problem :)
[8:06] Olga: The Second Life Liberation Army made it public in SL - what is your relation with those guys?
[8:07] H. Cardiff: I think that one of our teachers (W. B.) is a member and also a part of the "Piratbyrån" network who amongst other stuff run "The Pirate Bay"
[8:08] Olga: Okay, I will check that one out!
[8:09] H. Cardiff: And also Piratbion, with whom the screening was a collaboration, is connected to those organizations as well.
[8:09] H. Cardiff: ...I don't know a lot about the SLLA though.
[8:09] Olga: Did you have any political goals with your event, or was it just for fun?
[8:10] H. Cardiff: The people in my class responsible for it did not have any political goals
[8:10] H. Cardiff: ...the people they collaborated with did, I think.
[8:10] H. Cardiff: Personally, I think it's great that the event got the political attention it got.
[8:11] H. Cardiff: But it wasn't really my project :)
[8:11] Olga: What goals would those people have to support such event, do you think?
[8:12] H. Cardiff: They are basically against the idea of intellectual property.
[8:13] H. Cardiff: They are also interested in the Internet as a platform for new ways to interact and distribute information.
[8:13] H. Cardiff: But you'll have to ask them, I guess.
[8:13] Olga: I understand, the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show is being promoted as public commons!
[8:13] H. Cardiff: Their website is www.piratbyran.org
[8:13] H. Cardiff: ...it's in Swedish, I'm afraid.
[8:13] Olga: -/- Okay, this might be more related to you as an architect student as well:
[8:15] Olga: Would you agree that the issues of public/private space in SL are weird. And very much related to a S. Californian dream of freedom. Everything is privately owned, that is.
[8:15] H. Cardiff: True, I think this has less to do with ideology and more to do with making money.
[8:16] H. Cardiff: Private property can be taxed by linden lab
[8:17] H. Cardiff: I mean, for example they could easily make it possible to stream to objects instead of land. But if no one bought land, Lindenlab wouldn't make money.
[8:19] Olga: Go on...
[8:19] H. Cardiff: Then of course, there is the ideology among the inhabitants of SL and that seems to be highly reflective of these "MTV cribs"-like ideals.
[8:19] Olga: Yes, I agree. (I wrote this earlier:) Okay, there is tax, but more fundamentally, almost every land that has a function is privately owned by someone. Streets are only decoration, nobody uses them.
[8:20] Olga: Has there been any discussion in your group about public commons in the architecture of SL?
[8:21] H. Cardiff: Not a lot i think, although there are some people working on some kind of alternative way of organizing the grid I think.
[8:21] H. Cardiff: But I don't really know a lot about that project.
[8:22] H. Cardiff: Most people seem to be interested in the border between RL/SL as in the screening yesterday.
[8:23] H. Cardiff: And others are trying to test how architecture works in a world were "architecture" is unwanted.
[8:23] Olga: Yes, I agree. However, the actual experience of that bridging was quite limited, in my opinion.
[8:23] H. Cardiff: Very, I totally agree.
[8:24] H. Cardiff: Yes, in SL, people spend most of their time caring for their avatar, I think.
[8:25] H. Cardiff: Mostly because of the third person perspective.
[8:26] H. Cardiff: Because the camera is 20 meters behind you, the traditional "room" doesn't work
[8:25] Olga: Well, there is also: Sex and the illusion to create money easily.
[8:26] H. Cardiff: Yes, that's really interesting.
[8:26] H. Cardiff: Sex and gambling is what most people in SL seems to be doing
[8:27] Olga: I would like to go back to that: Do you generally try to address the public in SL, and how do you do that.
[8:28] H. Cardiff: I didn't take any...
[8:28] H. Cardiff: Well, this structure we are sitting in right now is an attempt at creating some kind of public space.
[8:28] Olga: So, this is your project!? I am glad we can talk about that.
[8:30] H. Cardiff: Sure, it's supposed to be interactive, architecture as an animated object, almost a living thing.
[8:30] H. Cardiff: But there is a lot of scripting involved in creating an object like that.
[8:30] H. Cardiff: And at the moment it only lights up, when it detects your presence...
[8:30] Olga: Tell me more about it, please.
[8:30] Olga: ...Maybe more about the concept.
[8:32] H. Cardiff: Basically it will sense your presence when you approach it. Either trying to approach you by moving towards you, or moving away from you.
[8:33] H. Cardiff: That will be determined by your approach to the object.
[8:33] Olga: And the offer it gives is basically to sit on it?
[8:33] H. Cardiff: Yes.
[8:33] H. Cardiff: Like a dog, it will get scared if you would leap at it.
[8:34] Olga: Would you, as a spectator, be able to do anything with it?
[8:34] H. Cardiff: Not sure, I would like to give it a memory, so that it would remember people who had visited it.
[8:35] H. Cardiff: Perhaps even missing, you if you've been around a lot and then disappeard.
[8:35] Olga: If I look at it over critically, I could say it is a nice party gigg. What in your concept makes it more than that?
[8:36] H. Cardiff: That's true, and it is in no way any revolution.
[8:37] H. Cardiff: In a way it aims at attracting avatars by being pretty.
[8:37] Olga: I am not talking revolutionary politics here!
[8:37] H. Cardiff: I know :)
[8:38] Olga: Would you be able to put them in other places. Like secret architecture?
[8:39] H. Cardiff: Possibly, if you had a of-world memory. Like a database connected to a web page, only one item would have to be passed along to others.
[8:40] Olga: Mmh, I am not clear if I understand that!?
[8:41] H. Cardiff: You would the copy it into the number of objects you would like. And everything else, like the objects position - 3d-shape, and behavior could be fetched from a collective memory.
[8:42] H. Cardiff: ...if i changed this structure i could in short change others on other sims.
[8:42] H. Cardiff: ...and avatars known to this one would be known to others
[8:42] Olga: Okay, I understand, the same what they call symbols and instnaces in Flash anim?
[8:43] H. Cardiff: Yes, that's it.
[8:43] Olga: Going back to that: you told me before, this is a project for a public space. In which ways do you address needs and qualities for a public space?
[8:43] H. Cardiff: The one factor in SL that attracts people, it seems to me, is other people.
[8:44] Olga: True, very true.
[8:44] H. Cardiff: Since we've been sitting here, for example, there have been a couple of people stopping by, asking questions.
[8:45] Olga: ;)
[8:45] H. Cardiff: If we would have started to talk to them they would have stayed.
[8:45] H. Cardiff: This structure is a platform for that kind of activity.
[8:45] Olga: Mmmmh, I like that very simple concept of the public.
[8:46] H. Cardiff: Like most other places in SL its a blinged out chartroom.
[8:46] Olga: A chartroom in a chartroom....
[8:46] H. Cardiff: yes.
[8:46] H. Cardiff: The interactive stuff is simply things I am interested in :)
[8:47] Olga: Okay, I think I am running out of questions and time ;)
[8:47] Olga: It was very nice meeting you!
[8:47] H. Cardiff: Well it has been very nice taking with you too.
[8:50] Olga: Would you agree if I would post our conversation on a blog? I will take out all private info like email address etc.
[8:51] Olga: It is something I am just starting to do, so there is not much publicity to it, yet.
[8:54] H. Cardiff: No problem
[8:54] H. Cardiff: I sent you the two images I had.
[8:56] Olga: Well I thank you for the pics and the conversation,
[8:56] H. Cardiff: You are welcome!
[8:59] Olga: Good night, then!
[8:59] H. Cardiff: Goodnight.
[8:59] H. Cardiff: and take care.
[9:00] Olga: ;) thanks!

Links:
Pirate Cinema Stockholm:
http://piratbion.blogsome.com/
http://www.piratbyran.org
Second Life Liberation Army:
SLLA blog slla.blogspot.com
SLLA homepage http://secondlla.googlepages.com/
http://www.piratecinema.org/
Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm
http://www.unrealstockholm.org/drupal/

SLURL:
The Office (cinema)