Olga Wunderlich interviews people involved with art, and art-related politics in Second Life. The interviews have been slightly corrected for grammar, better reading and understanding. I hope you will get interesting infos and inspiration for your own actvities in Second Life.

Reopening of Fleur de Lys with Exhibition

Please be welcome to the GRAND REOPENING OF FLEUR DE LYS. As our first show we present a solo exhibition of artist TRINDOLYN BECK.

Fleur De Lys - Buyeo
Friday, 24 August 2007

Click here for images of the opening reception.

SLURL: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Buyeo/90/199/21

The acclaimed singer and acoustic guitar player FABLE SINATRA will join us and perform during the opening. (Link: http://www.myspace.com/fablesinatra)

TRINDOLYN BECK's images are mesmerizing and depict "ordinary life" in 3-D. Made with a 3-D modelling program outside of SL, his scenes show how Second Life could be in near future, but also which stories and human dramas it may represent, or even maybe lived in SL. Presented with photographs, one still could call Trindolyn Beck a sculpturer, a modeller, a stage designer, and a photopgrapher. His images have been shown in RL and SL. In RL he lives in Nebraska and has been strongly evolved with the 3-D community for years.

Please also check out the interview with Trindolyn Beck at this blog.

We hope you are all able to come!

Olga Wunderlich and Anderson Philbin

Click here to read full interview or posting!

Trindolyn Beck - artist

Tridolyn Beck is an artist in Second Life who mainly works in a different 3D program: Poser. He then imports the images into Second Life, where he already had a number of exhibitions, the most recent in Galeria LX, where we meet, and in Gallery… For him, Second Life is an extension of what 3D artists have been doing for several years and thus he likes to live and to socialize in Second Life. The motifs of his images derive from stories, such as fairytales but also stories he remembers from childhood. With his 3D imaging program, he is able to achieve a much higher resolution and much more sophisticated poses than in SL, thus, his photographs seem to stay in between Second Life and Real Life, at least if we see them represented in Second Life. In the interview he talks about his work and the relations between SL, RL and his art, and the possible future of Second Life.

[13:48] Olga Wunderlich: We meet in a gallery space in SL, where you show your work. So I would like to ask you how long have you been in SL, and what is you reason to show your art here?
[13:49] Trindolyn Beck: I was born February 26th 2007..... and I guess, just like Real Life I need to show my work to help explain who I am
[13:50] Olga: well, I know, but what is mostly interesting to me, to tell it straight, in our talk, is how you are relating to SL. In certain ways, one could say you are not a SL artist?
[13:52] T.B.: Well, I am NOT in particular, an SL artist. I am an artist who exists on SL. I have been involved with the 3D community for many years and SL just seemed to be an acceptable extension of the work I create.
[13:53] Olga: In which ways is it an extension?
[13:55] T.B.: I do not create my main work in world, although I do some sculpturing and photography here. But I guess what I mean is Second Life was born from the type of art I and other 3D artists do. If it weren't for Poser and Bryce and programs such as these, SL would not exist. So since you and I are born from SL.... that makes it an extension. Also, living in this world gives me inspiration
[13:57] Olga: Interesting, so you have the feeling our existence is a mind child from the community you have been involved in?
[13:57] T.B.: oh definitely..... Avatars are born from 3D modeling. They are just animated.
[13:58] Olga: What is more important for you, the modeling or the picture making, saying: are you a builder or a photographer?
[14:00] T.B.: I am much more involved in the modeling aspect as would be a painter. Photography is the recording of God's work where what I do is more playing the God.
[14:00] Olga: and do you feel, what is happening at the moment in SL is somehow your images coming alive?
[14:02] T.B.: it's funny like that.. but yes... I love watching 3D coming to life and coming together of all the interesting artists involved in this massive piece of art.... That will someday become a "norm" in communication

[14:03] Olga: I actually did have the feeling, that you are ahead of SL, and related, the mannequins seem much more hyper realistic, and the themes you are having are dreams and fairytales come true.
[14:05] T.B.: Well, you are right, what I do IS more advanced in many ways but then you have to remember that the programs I use have been around for many years where SL is only just beginning. I have no doubt that it will catch up and even overtake the simple modeler
[14:07] Olga: There is something eerie in your images, more eerie, or uncanny than images you may in SL, and I wonder, will be SL like that? To explain that a bit: A friend of mine talked about the "Uncanny Valley", when we were in the show and talking about your images. Is that a term you are familiar with?
[14:10] T.B.: no... but I think what you are referring to is the detail that gives my drawings more "life" than SL can produce. An example: you are a lovely woman, very lovely, but your shoulders and your elbows are pointy, due to low resolution. And you have very little expression in your face or movement. That makes a world of difference when someone is visualizing.
[14:12] Olga: Right, the "Uncanny Valley" is a (not very serious) theory about robots, that they become suddenly uncanny to us, when they become too realistic, too close to human beings, unto the point when they reach a more humanoid level, where we start to feel sympathy again. Could you agree with that? (http://www.dansdata.com/gz062.htm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley)
[14:13] T.B.: I LOVE all my people!!!! lol.... I become very attached to the characters I create. BECAUSE they are so real and BECAUSE I put so much heart into them. They are like family to me.
[14:15] Olga: (smiles) Maybe THAT is a reason they are so uncanny, they trigger something deep inside, I feel.
[14:17] T.B.: Definitely, they do that. I have a story that I have been working on for about 15 years that I finally finished and illustrated, and the main character is so beloved to me.... I actually had to kill her off to get my mind away from using her. I feel the same thing is probably working with that J.K.Rowlings lady and Harry Potter. She has to kill him to stop writing about her boy.
…- I cried
[14:19] Olga: Interesting! So, you do not feel so much difference to writer who creates a character, just that your personae are in a way more real, at least to the eye. However, I must ask the gender question: It is very obvious that almost all (or all ?) your characters are female, what is the reason for that, do you not wish for an alter ego?
[14:22] T.B.: I have an alter ego..... It lives in my drawings... THAT is why they are female to some degree. Also, I feel the female form is stronger physically and emotionally not outwardly but inwardly. They make more interesting subjects for me.
[14:23] Olga: Well, it is also a kind of stereotype in the arts, the female character is the one who suffers or gets objectified. The female character is the surface of projection for the male fantasy
[14:25] T.B.: I am a feminist... I deplore the use of female characters in bondage, s/m, or other inhumane forms in art. My characters are sweet and loving. ANOTHER reason I don't create as many men.... Men are PIGS for the most part and I know this.
Sort of blunt... but, you catch my drift
[14:27] Olga: Mhh, wouldn't it be desirable to find a sensitive and beautiful male character for your family?
[14:28] T.B.: I have a couple of them....... but they are usually stupid........ Except Trindolyn here. (smiles)
[14:29] Olga: Yes, that is something I was thinking of, who is Trindolyn? Is he a work of art?
[14:29] T.B.: I am Trindolyn. And yes, he lives in my art
[14:34] Olga: Let us for a moment talk in the third person, is he a character by himself? …like your models?
[14:35] T.B.: He is a character...... that develops daily. He is a lot like me. Someone I can count on to be ME when I can't.
Trin has the ability to say pretty much anything he wants as long as he doesn't mind pissing people off. I don't have that ability in the least. Grownups don't behave that way. So... In Trin, I can be who I want.
In fact... I have another character on here... who we will not discuss... that can and does anything "she" wants to... she gives me much more freedom than even Trin does.
[14:40] Olga: And both Trin and your mannequins, do they change a lot, do they take up different shapes and different outfits?
I feel it is a very interesting fact that you also have a female avi in SL, but I don't force you to talk about her. (smiles)
[14:41] T.B.: The Poser ladies.... I make new ones a lot but keep the old ones. Trin.. changes clothes.... that's about it.
They fit different scenes from time to time, different clothing, different hair, but it takes me weeks to get them looking good. I will not throw that away.
For instance, the picture of the dollies down there... "Dulali" is actually the same model as the ladies in the "background glass" but I redid the texture of her skin to emulate cloth and stithery. Now, they share a folder on my computer.
[14:45] Olga: Going back to some of your pictures, I like most those, which seem to show very ordinary life scenes, still, I am getting a feeling of (them) being haunted or some crime happening in the back.
[14:46] T.B.: Really?
[14:46] Olga: The ones I took notes of, was "sisters" "the awakening" and "bad girls" - where you don't see any "bad" as obvious in the images. Do you have stories in mind, when creating these scenes?
[14:46] T.B.: Oh sure.... I think of my art as illustration more than any kind of “Fine" art. So most of them are relaying an idea of something.
[14:47] T.B.: However, I prefer the viewer to make their own stories
[14:48] Olga: Humm, what kind of idea is that, is it something like a root of a story, or just a situation?
[14:48] T.B.: Sisters is about just that.... one moment they are loving and sweet and the next they are at each other. Sisters fight!! right?? …out of nowhere sometimes.
Bad girls is showing an image of what I remember in school... mainly with boys but... showing a cute and naughty side of everyone.
Awakening is dark and scary... always some of that around.
[14:51] Olga: Mmmmmmmh… Interesting. There it is again, that twist: you have a scene you remember as boys, and you create a scene with girls !?
[14:51] T.B.: (laughs).. I like girls. It maintains my interest in the long haul of putting them together.
Make sense?
…whereas a dorky man would not.
[14:52] Olga: Yes, of course. I think in art, there is always some kind of erotic moment, and there is nothing bad about that.
[14:53] T.B.: The trick is to make that eroticism not flagerant
[14:54] Olga: I would like to shift our conversation again a bit towards SL. Your making of art with poser is pretty much a very lonely undertaking, do you socialize in SL, and what do you feel about the society that evolves on SL?
[14:56] T.B.: I do socialize in SL. I think its a great way to meet people from all over the world. I spend a lot of time in a place called “Hyles Swamp” just meeting new people, talking and laughing. I also live on a private island with a group of furries that I love very much... we talk and laugh all the time (laughs)..... The good thing is..... I can work on my art WHILE I hang on SL and get a lot more done.
[14:58] Olga: What is the inspiring moment in SL? When does it happen?
[14:59] T.B.: Well, I think it is seeing other peoples "characters" and what they do with them.... It gives another angle to what I am doing
[14:59] T.B.: You for instance
[14:59] Olga: yes?
[14:59] T.B.: I love the shape of your gallery
[14:59] Olga: ooh thank you ;)
[15:00] T.B.: impracticle as it may be... it is different and THAT is important. We can deal with the rest.
[15:08] Olga: I asked you to do a work in SL, and you told me you did that a few times.
[15:09] T.B.: yes?
[15:10] Olga: I asked you mainly, because I am interested what kind of difference it will make for you to work with "real" people (I mean avis, and how would you correctly say: someone “driving” an avi?)
[15:11] T.B.: Well, right off the bat... U CAN'T "drive an avi". The difference would be that I have no control over you. That makes it quite a bit different, and much more difficult to create a vision.
[15:12] Olga: (I was just searching for a GOOD expression)
[15:12] T.B.: Oh i think it was a good expression. I can't take you arm and move it back or change the way you are sitting, or make you smile or frown, or get rid of our obnoxious points.
Now, I can take you and put you in a beautiful setting with the right light but you would still be sitting there in that silly pose they make us do, right?
We WILL do it... I promise.. but it will take a lot of work and CHANCE. Chance is a huge factor with art inworld
[15:17] Olga: Okay, I am very curious about our experiment. Now, I think being close to an end of our interview, I would like to ask you some short questions.
[15:18] T.B.: sure
[15:18] Olga: What do you think about SL art?
[15:19] T.B.: The same thing I think about all art... some of it is wonderful, some is outrageous, some of it makes me sick. I have seen way too much art in my life and have found very little that I really enjoy.
[15:20] Olga: (smiles) How do you feel about SL not being an open society, but basically a big company with corporate rules instead of law.
[15:20] T.B.: I think that would blow.... But, it will probably become true because money rules the world.... When it does... I will move on. To put it simply, I am a huge hater of corporate life... it takes all the art out of everything. I have also learned through 50 years of life that there is not a lot any one person can do about it except try not to join in.
[15:25] Olga: Well, if you look at my interview with GE, he basically states that the longer he works here the more he feels that all his art is dependent on the liking of LL.
(This rising moon is gigantic!!!!!!!)
[15:24] T.B.: I love the moon
[15:25] Olga: Do you feel SL is a platform, or is it a game?
[15:26] T.B.: Both...... it will produce something that we will use daily... at the same time it is a way to forget your troubles... or make new ones. I play the game but it is too close to reality to STAY a game for very long. It becomes real...... peoples lives become entwined. And then it no longer feels like a game.
You wanna know the best part of this "game" for me?
[15:28] Olga: yes
(He offers Olga a hug)
[15:29] Olga: Mmhhh that is sweet.
I have one question left! What does it mean "Tortured artist"? (referring to the group tag Trindolyn is wearing)
[15:31] T.B.: It means, I find no respect as an artist here or in RL.... but then I never expected to
[15:31] Olga: Thank you so much, it was a pleasure to talk to you!
[15:31] T.B.: You are welcome... bye Olga
[15:32] Olga: Bye, Trindolyn.

Artist Trindolyn Beck aka Stephen Kauble:
Galleria LX:
Gallery Oculus (SLURL:)

Click here to read full interview or posting!

"Zombie Attack! 28 Avatars Later" - SF performance

After our Interview, Great Escape from the performance group Second Front invited me to join in into their next big performance. - Hard stuff, as I not only knew a bit of what was coming up, but it also was starting at 4:00 am my time. I joined in, half asleep, but then everything happened so rappidely and it was, yes, fun, that I had two hours of "dancing", following teleports and meeting people under weird circumstances. I also found it quite impressive, how easily I started to fit into the role and was looking very differently at normal avatars.
But here is a collection of my images:

The peformance started off at the "Stuff on Pikes" graveyard, I was just teleported there, so I did not know where I was. I would otherwise possibly have made some pictures of the graves. When I arrived I was given a "teddy bear" and a skin to wear. If you look on the SF blog entry about the performance, you will see images of my transformation. Wearing those made me "affected". I started to dance, and bite into others and objects around me. I also made a terrible sound: "Oh my god! Oh my god!"
On the upper left there is Gazira Babeli, on the other images friends of SF, who have already been affected. The affected girl on the left seemed to run away, when I was taking the picture.

The girl with the green skin seemed to be the owner of the graveyard, and she happily joined in into the dance of the dead, her green skin prevented her from showing rotten flesh, as we believe. Then we moved to a Zombie cellar, where we practiced our zombie dance. When I stepped one floor deeper down, I suddenly was surrounded by more zombies, who did not belong to the group. Luckily I was teleported out and we met at New Paris to dance our dead dance on the Eiffel Tower.

In New Paris it was much fun, and I found several people to dance with, one of which was Tea Chenille, in the smooth summer night. Before we left, it started to rain brains. We missed the stop at the public sandbox and were directly teleported to an Irish pub, where people seemed to have much fun about our appearance. Then, the group decided to go to Rausch's Combat Sim, where the group had already done a performance some time ago. There, I met a strange guy, who seemed to be amused and started to talk to him, while he was trying out some strange weapon made out of semi-transparent objects, which killed us, the already dead and sent us "back home". Funnily, after he also had killed me, he asked me to come back, and was disappointed when I came alone. I guess he wanted to try out a much larger weapon. I had a good laugh and stated, that his humor was not very different to our humor. But he resisted and did not take on my offer for a kiss.
I tried to call for being teleported to join the others, but at that point the performance was already over. I only heard, that the group possibly brought the Sim where they were last to crash. - Many thanks top Great Escape and Gazira Babeli, and all others for having me with them and joining into the performance.

Please visit the Second Front Blog with more images and some videos about the performance "Zombie Attack! 28 Avatars Later"

Find more photos like this on Odyssey Contemporary Art and Performance

Click here to read full interview or posting!

Great Escape - artist

Great Escape is an artist both in SL and in RL. He is one of the early members of the SL performance group Second Front. The group focuses on collaborative performances in Second Life. And, I met Great Escape, who likes to be called GE, after I watched the Pizza Slut Performance on May 24 2007, or better saying, after I took part in it. The idea of the performance was basically to deliver pizza to people who like to order one, and then to make a party out of it, offering free pizza to everybody around. Performers would wear pizza as coats, or wear pizzas on their head, others would drive delivery vans. When I arrived to the home base of Second Front, Gazira Babeli, another member of Second Front, immediately asked me to join the performance and drive an UPS van, which was redecorated as a pizza delivery van. It was much fun to do that, but also made me vulnerable and put me on display, in such ways that in the two hot spots where the group got in trouble: at the SL Stock Exchange and at Cloud Lounge, I was not able to take pictures, as first, I was teleported in late and second, I was banned immediately after arrival. The issue of being banned as a performance artist thus also became an important point in our discussion.

However, in the interview we take the opportunity of the Pizza Slut performance to talk about larger issues of art and performance in Second Life. So, although this posting comes quite late (many appologies to everybody involved!), I think it is still worth posting and - for you – reading about the experiences of GE as artist in Second Life.

[0:03] Great Escape: hey Olga!
[0:03] Olga Wunderlich: Hey!! you are there! great! GE!
[0:03] GE: I'm an avatar of my word ;)
[0:11] Olga: Is this your own land?
[0:11] GE: Yea, this is my place. Remember when we got booted from the stock exchange? Well, my next door neighbors were on the board! Sheer coincidence.
[0:12] Olga: Ooh! did you have a talk about the performance?

[0:12] GE: They were pissed at me for a little bit and banned me from their land. Which was annoying. But when I explained what we were doing, they thought it was funny and all was resolved.
They thought I was deliberately harassing them!
[0:13] Olga: Great then, that you could talk with them
[0:14] GE: Glad it got resolved is all. For a while there, I was bummed out to have a barrier on the south side of my place.
[0:14] Olga: Did they recognize you?
[0:15] GE: They recognized my name at the performance...as one of their neighbors. They IM'd me at the time and I didn't know who they were and was a little unabashed.
So, do you want to finally do our official interview ;) Now that you've performed with us...
[0:19] Olga: Well, do you tell me first how long have you been in SL and for how long do you make art here?
[0:19] GE: Let me check my profile...It says July 21st, 2006.
[0:20] Olga: ;) Did you come to SL with the intension to make art?
[0:20] GE: SL began as a research project. I was in a residency at the Banff Centre for the Arts in a collaboration. With Victoria Scott, another artist. * incidentally, my RL name is public. We were looking at online relational spaces: MySpace, Friendster, FaceBook and also Second Life.

[0:22] Olga: Do you tell me shortly about the center and your research?
[0:22] GE: Sure thing. The Banff Centre for the Arts has thematic residencies. Ours was called the "Future of Idea Art" -- e.g. a conceptual art residency. The Banff Centre is in the Canadian Rockies, kind of near Alberta. Very isolated and very beautiful. Wonderful place. So, we got accepted in as a collaborative duo.
[0:24] Olga: And have you, together with Victoria, been the only one who were checking out SL?
[0:25] GE: Yes, we were the only ones looking at Second Life.
[0:25] Olga: (can we sit on the sofa? please? is that possible?)
[0:25] GE: (sure...the box is hurting my butt)
[0:26] GE: We look like little kids on our parents sofa!
[0:26] Olga: Right!
[0:29] GE: hehehe;
We were researching ways to build physical models of online relational spaces. Like MySpace & SL. Using common construction materials, and without technology. Psychological representations, that is.
SL posed difficulties. It was different than other spaces, because of the simulated physicality. I started spending more and more time exploring the geography there...but no real friends on SL.
[0:32] Olga: Was it difficult to make a physical abstraction, because it already has some kind of physical representation?
[0:33] GE: Yes, and also because we were looking for ways to model the psychology of the space. We came up with a project called 2x2. Its on my website (www.kildall.com). Also a smaller project called the "Tile Project" which I haven't finished documenting yet. So, it ended up being a productive period.
[0:35] Olga: And what made you stay in SL?
[0:36] GE: At the same time, during the residency, I started experimenting with large-sized prints. My avatar in various found geography. And then after the residency was over (early Nov, 2006), I began to work on some prints from SL. These are also on my site... ”Paradise Ahead” is the name of the series.
[0:38] Olga: ahh okay, those with geographical representation?

[0:38] GE: geography plus recreated moments from art. 12 prints in total.
[0:39] Olga: Is “Leap into Space” one of those?
[0:39] GE: yes.
[0:39] Olga: And, each depicts moments of anticipation and excitement related to virtual worlds.
[0:40] Olga: That is a nice explanation, it really makes sense to me.
[0:40] GE: thanks.
[0:41] Olga: It is interesting to me, that you had this themed work and professional oriented view onto SL when you started to be here. Did that change over time?
[0:41] GE: It sure did. During the residency, I gave a talk on SL. I signed up about 6 people on the spot.
[0:42] Olga: Artist friends?
[0:42] GE: Yes, all artists that I knew in RL. Tran Spire from Second Front was one of them...a.k.a. Doug Jarvis. About 2 weeks after the residency, he emailed me about Second Front. I went online and met everyone and we did our first performance a couple days later.
[0:43] Olga: Wow, that was quick.
[0:44] GE: Things happen fast in SL.
[0:44] Olga: Do you also socialize with other people in SL?
[0:44] GE: I'm not as extroverted in SL as I am in RL! I meet a lot of people and end up making friends with people who are mostly other artists and are interested in what we do. I have a few other non-artist friends in SL.
[0:46] Olga: That is interesting - most people are the other way around. They use SL to explore there more communicative and extroverted side.
[0:46] GE: I think I use it to check out my introverted self. The first 3 months I was on, I didn't meet anyone.
I'd just teleport around and check out places. I was fascinated with what people were building. Notions of architecture were strangely boring. Lots of RL-looking condos. I think during the residency, there wasn't a lot of private space, so SL was my private zone.
Non-commercial areas give people the freedom to build all sorts of idealized visions of what they want. It can be factories, tract houses, space lounges, anything. It's fascinating to see what people come up with.
[0:59] Olga: What is a public space for you in SL? I mean everything is privately owned.
[0:59] GE: Good question! The line between public and private is ambiguous. Public is anything you can go into and feel like its yours and not someone elses. It can be gardens, parks. But also lounges and bars. What's weird about SL is that most places are empty - like a ghost town.
[1:02] Olga: I am very interested in the question of public and public space in SL, and I wonder what it does to a space, if it is: first of all privately owned, I mean there is no common grounds in SL , and second, as you say empty.
[1:03] GE: But also, as long as there are no barriers to entry (like most places), you can trespass and go into anyone's house. There isn't a lot of true 'private space' ... not like RL. Except maybe some of the specialty sims like Gorean or Furries.
[1:06] Olga: Okay, I would like to nail you down a bit more: firstly you were interested in these spaces as representative spaces for the people who built it. And now it seems you are mostly doing performances, which is a very social activity. Can you help me with how you bridge from one to the other?
[1:07] GE: Sure. I think they're tied together. The performances entail many things. But one that is important for me is about engaging the public in a way that challenges expected behavior. Like traditional performance, the boundaries between audience and performer become unclear. Like with AllenVest (His neighbour who is involved with the stock exchange). They became part of our performance (the Pizza Performance) because they had a hostile reaction. All the performances take place in the spaces of representation.
“Martyr Sauce” (a pacifist performance) was in the combat sim. People didn't expect a bunch of hippies to come there. AllenVest didn't expect Pizza deliveries. The performance are an active way to look at how the space can be used and not just what it looks like from an architectural standpoint. I think performance is important in this environment because social rules have yet to be defined. There's still a lot of openness here.

[1:12] Olga: I think we should talk a bit more about the Pizza Delivery performance, would you shortly describe what you did and where the idea came from?
[1:12] GE: the idea originally came from reports that Dominos Pizza was opening a branch in SL. Dominos is a huge pizza chain in RL in the U.S. We decided to get involved in doing pizza deliveries to Dominos and did some research. I think you can order a RL pizza through SL. It’s a way for Dominos to sell more pizzas in RL. An advertising gimmick.
[1:17] GE: There is another pizzeria called Pizza Sublimi that delivers pizzas in SL, for 75 lindens each.
[1:17] Olga: oohh wow, that is quite a price!
[1:18] GE: 75 Lindens...only 25 cents in RL. Not much to pay for artwork.
I got one of their delivery people to join us for the performance. I would ask her to give pizzas to different people.
[1:19] Olga: Okay, and you had people ordering pizza? or did you deliver just to the places who called at Dominos?

[1:19] GE: Well, turns out Dominos wasn't yet on SL. So we improvised the performance. We went to Pizza Meister which looks like a pizza place. And then started delivering pizzas to friends of ours as a surprise.
[1:20] Olga: Ahh, okay, now it becomes more clear to me. We also went to the stock exchange did you have a friend there as well?
[1:21] GE: We delivered pizza first to Rubaiyat Shatner, a friend, and then to In Kenzo, someone else I know. Then, Wirxli IM'd a reporter friend of his. And she said she'd like a pizza from Second Front. But was at Allen Vest at a big stock meeting. We didn't know where we were going and then TP'd into the meeting. Well, you saw what happened from there.
[1:23] Olga: Well, I did not see much, when I arrived I was expelled right away, I only lasted a couple of.
[1:24] GE: The next place was a cloud lounge that Aliselborg TP'd us to. It was a place for couples.
[1:25] Olga: There I could at least take two pictures, but then I was not only expelled but also banned.
[1:25] GE: ):

[1:26] Olga: Did you expect the kind of strong reaction? I mean banning people is quite a strong reaction, almost the strongest you can have.
[1:27] GE: I didn't expect the reaction at all from Allen Vest. I mean, we were invited after all. But, the cloud lounge doesn't surprise me.
[1:28] Olga: Why is that?
[1:29] GE: When you get to the Cloud Lounge, there tell you what is the purpose of the place...for relaxation and basically nothing weird.
[1:31] Olga: I know that Gazira like to provoke and she thinks a ban is a cool reaction from the people. I would like to know, what you feel is the difference to acts from griefers who basically also just like to provoke and have reactions form people
[1:32] GE: I can't really speak for Gazira's motivations.
[1:32] Olga: no. talk about yours
[1:32] GE: ok. I think griefing is a really general and subjective term. In an extreme form, it can be a way to make someone feel violated or threatened. I don't consider myself a griefer.
[1:34] Olga: Well, I guess the stock market people felt violated, you can feel that out of the reactions they told to your friend from the press.

[1:35] GE: I'm not interested in provoking people for the sake of provocation. But, select the ways in which we do performances and the places. With Allen Vest, we did not have intention to go and harass them. But, thought we were delivering pizzas to a colleague.
[1:37] Olga: I like to know more about your aims for performances.
[1:37] GE: I think for the performances, there are many goals.
For me... One is like I said to make people question social rules. Is it okay to have a band of people delivering pizzas in Second Life? Most people think about SL as a place for selling things, meeting people, sexual relations, gambling. I think there's a lot more activity that can be incredibly creative.
Second goal: to open up art practices in virtual worlds. Lots of questions here: what does it mean to have networked performance with anonymous people. It's a huge field of exploration and I find it incredibly exciting to be at the front of it.
Third: to see what we are capable of as a group.
[1:41] Olga: with networked performance you mean something like I came to your performance and immediately got invited to drive a van?
[1:42] GE: Yes, that's part of it. The viewer becomes performer.
[1:43] Olga: Is it important for you that people know that it is art what you are doing?

[1:44] GE: In my profile, I state what I am doing and I have a link to the blog. Also I always have the "Second Front" title above my head.
[1:44] GE: (just fixed that)
[1:44] Olga: He he he - in a way is it also a goal to reach new and different people with art?
[1:46] GE: For certain. It's so hard to tell how people will be reached. We're operating in unknown channels. SL has a lot of potential. I think this is only the beginning of what people will be doing in SL.
[1:48] Olga: I understand the enthousiasm of the new possibilties, (like physically impossible things you can do in SL) and the openness of people, which makes them more receptive for interaction. But I also wonder a bit that you seem to have no problems with the whole commercial aspect of SL, of its non-democratic foundation.
1. that every space is privatley owned, there are no public commons
[1:50] GE: heh using my words ;)

[1:50] Olga: 2. the whole set of SL is a private setting, we are part of a commercail game. There is not even a right for me, very few public laws applicate, we are under the private rules of a cooperation. Not under law.
[1:52] GE: I agree, this is problematic.
[1:52] Olga: To me it seemed that it is not bothering you, or at least it does not play a role in your performances?
[1:52] GE: If Linden Labs doesn't approve of what we're doing here, they can terminate my account. So, there's not that much security in SL since there is no accountablity. So far, this has only played a small role in the performances. Well, maybe it will play a bigger and bigger one.
[1:54] Olga: in which ways do you think it plays a role for you?
[1:54] GE: Lately, I've been re-thinking the structure of SL. Ever since the Pizza SLut performance, I feel like I have to consider my actions more thoughtfully. Allen Vest threatened to report us to Linden Labs for griefing and threatened Gazira with blocking her IP. I thought about what happens if everything in SL goes away for me.

[1:56] GE: A lesson in non-attachment forms of Buddhism ;)
[1:56] Olga: ?? i don't understand this sentence
[1:57] GE: Ah. Lessons in non-attachment...i.e. not worrying about losing something too much.
[1:57] GE: I think for me, my artistic practice is not tied to SL.
[1:58] GE: If SL suddenly dies or I can't get on, then no more Second Front for me.
[1:58] GE: And I move onto other media.
[2:01] Olga: But, I was going to ask another question. How important is your art practise in SL for you in comparison with yor RL art practise?
[2:02] GE: k.
[2:02] GE: Art practice in SL is just part of my RL practice. I have a couple projects in SL but a number more in RL.
[2:04] Olga: Well, but that means it is more important to have it publicly reviewed in RL then it is for you in SL?

[2:04] GE: For me, it's important to bring SL work into RL. Otherwise, the audience is really limited. SL reviews are good; so are RL reviews. But my prints are for RL galleries, not for SL galleries. Second Front is developing more of an RL presence. I have had shows in RL galleries twice now.
[2:05] Olga: ooh okay, that is interesting for me - that was an important point for me.
Okay, I guess I should leave you although I still have one provocative statement/question
[2:08] GE: ok, one more ;)
[2:09] Olga: If I would be harsh on you, I could say, that in certain ways you are still looking a lot from the outside, from a RL point of view onto SL. Still a bit like looking at an exotic place. Is that true?
[2:11] GE: It is hard to say. RL and SL are confusing boundaries. They're different for each person.
[2:12] Olga: is it maybe important for you to have a kind of outside view, to be more like an observer, in order to make art?

Great Escape aka Scott Kildall:
Second Front blog:
Pizza Slut Performance
Pizza Slut on the front page of SL Enquirer

Odyssey Network
About ordering pizza in-world:
SLNN news
Second Life Research

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